Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-12-20 02:51 PM - Post#299703
In response to PennFan10
We will (well maybe unless there is a chance he returns) get the status on Betley soon. We know with near certainty he’s not coming back before the tournament. Time to talk about next weekend and stop debating his importance ad nauseum.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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@Cornell
02-12-20 02:54 PM - Post#299705
In response to PennFan10
That usage rate is the key number. Both in comparison with Daly and in comparison with pre-injury Betley, when Betley played on a more experienced team with far more scorers. Betley had a 4 point higher usage rate when Penn had Foreman, Antonio, Wood, Silpe, Rothschild and Donahue in addition to AJ and Goodman. He was the leading scorer on that team as well.
That pretty much says it all---you would expect a senior Betley to have a much higher usage rate and scoring numbers had there been no knee injury. Give him credit for staying within himself, but frankly, we could have used some Daly numbers from him this year.
[Sorry Steve, I typed this before you scolded us]
Edited by palestra38 on 02-12-20 02:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-12-20 03:51 PM - Post#299709
In response to palestra38
It was Jerome who guarded Daly, almost exclusively, in the St Joe’s game. Admittedly, that was probably the plan because of how badly Schweiger had beaten Betley one on one in the first Princeton game.
Understood on the Daly/Betley recruiting point. However, as with Goodman vs. Mike Smith, you have two very different approaches from a coaching standpoint. Daly would be a very different player for Penn — probably with a higher ORAT and a lower usage rate. Betley is unlikely to play like Daly of course — I assume that he will have an even higher ORAT and a similarly low usage rate playing at a higher level next year.
One more statistical point on rebounds. Seems like there is a lot of downplaying of the rebounding numbers for various reasons. Note that only one Ivy team has two defensive rebounders who are out rebounding Betley — Dartmouth. So this concept that playing the 4 enables him to outrebound other guards isn’t quite right — he’s out rebounding a lot of bigs in the league as well. Just to name two, Ryan Betley gets a higher percentage of defensive rebounds than either Chris Lewis or Paul Atkinson. I don’t think the argument that Betley would get more offensive rebounds if he was a good rebounder really holds up. Lots of guys are much stronger rebounding on one end or the other (including Lewis and Atkinson, who are both much stronger on the offensive end).
Finally, I fully recognize that nobody means their posts to reflect negatively on Betley, and that to the extent I am feeling a need to “defend†him, that is more a matter of my own perceptions of what has been said. So no accusations intended, and hopefully this is mostly just an interesting variation on our usual debates about the interplay between what our eyes tell us and what the numbers say. Both have value, and both have a little something to say about the limitations of the other.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-12-20 04:44 PM - Post#299727
In response to SomeGuy
Just read an ESPN article on the league transfer rules. Donahue is quotes saying Bekery might have stayed another year if he could enroll in grad school and play. I admire the league’s desire not to sell out, but their actual policies are flat out terrible.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-12-20 04:50 PM - Post#299728
In response to Penndemonium
As I stated in the Ivy board, Ivy grad schools are some of the most difficult to get into in the nation. A basketball coach can't get someone into Wharton Grad or the Law School because a player is staying an extra year. I understand the frustration, but Ivy grad schools are on an entirely different plane than their undergraduate schools. Financial aid is very different too. I don't see how it is workable unless we go to a scholarship system that entitles a player who misses a year to take grad courses in certain enumerated programs.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-12-20 06:37 PM - Post#299738
In response to palestra38
Jerome Allen could have.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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02-12-20 07:09 PM - Post#299742
In response to palestra38
A reasonable point. While it is moot as to Ryan, we don't know whether he (or any other athlete) could have been admitted to any of Penn's graduate schools on merit, i.e. grades, any other standardized tests and other metrics.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: @Cornell
02-12-20 07:55 PM - Post#299746
In response to palestra38
[Sorry Steve, I typed this before you scolded us]
You are excused now that we hear Betley's return before the playoffs is a possibility as of now.
I still can't fathom all the debate over his relative value though. It should be pretty obvious.
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