iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-24-20 04:50 PM - Post#301662
I was browsing through KenPom this morning and noticed his All-League team feature. I can't find any write-up of what factors he uses to include people, but I'd assume it's some sort of amalgamation of performance metrics to determine who's played the best.
Anyway, here's his all-Ivy first team:
Paul Atkinson (PoY)
AJ Brodeur
Jordan Bruner
Chris Knight
Mike Smith
Obviously this isn't going to be what the real all-Ivy first team looks like - three of the possible tournament teams got shut out!
I recall a discussion about this earlier this year and also last year: the IL awards seem to be at somewhat biased towards successful teams. Do we like this? I think I dislike it, at least to a certain extent. After all, it's not Mike Smith's fault that Columbia isn't very good this year. By the same token, though, it seems like rewarding players simply for greater opportunity doesn't sit quite right with me - maybe if Kirkwood had to take the same proportion of shots as Knight does, he'd be putting up bigger numbers.
Here's my too-early picks for the IL teams, based on my subjective opinions and some quick stat-glancing:
First Team:
Paul Atkinson (PoY)
AJ Brodeur
Mike Smith
Jaelin Llewellyn
Azar Swain
Second Team:
Brandon Anderson
Chris Lewis
Devon Goodman
Noah Kirkwood
Chris Knight
HM:
Terrence McBride
Richmond Aririguzoh
Jordan Bruner
Tamenang Choh
Jordan Dingle (RoY)
Please feel free to let me know why all of these opinions are bad/if I've managed to forget somebody obvious (which I can never rule out as a possibility)!
Edited by iogyhufi on 02-24-20 05:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-24-20 04:51 PM - Post#301663
In response to iogyhufi
These picks are also in no particular order, lest anyone be concerned about that.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-24-20 05:11 PM - Post#301665
In response to iogyhufi
Quibbling but I'd probably put Anderson on the first team over Llewellyn, but that's a close call. And I think there's an argument for Juzang as HM/3rd team, though I'm not sure who gets removed from that list.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy Teams
02-24-20 06:54 PM - Post#301677
In response to iogyhufi
A lot will depend on who wins the title, as you mention. This will impact a couple things. The obvious one is that it'll impact who gets First Team and who wins POY. The secondary effect is it might impact how many players make HM. That's because after you sort out First and Second Team based on the voting, any players left that got 2 points or more (coaches vote a First and Second Team and each player on those gets 2pts and 1pt, respectively) make Honorable Mention. If a team like Yale wins the title and brings two clear First Teamers with it, that could leave less randomness in the voting that would generate more HMs. If a team like Harvard wins the title with, umm, Kirkwood (?), Lewis (?) as maybe First Teamers, you could see more wide open voting.
In general I agree you have the right players, and it's hard to quibble with the positioning. It's possible we have some ties that expand First or Second Team, but that Honorable Mention list seems a touch large right now.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: All-Ivy Teams
02-24-20 07:08 PM - Post#301681
In response to mrjames
Oh, I didn't know that that's how HM worked! Well in that case, McBride and Dingle are probably longer shots to make it; I could see Bruner, Choh, and Aririguzoh all getting a vote or two.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-24-20 07:33 PM - Post#301683
In response to iogyhufi
If Penn finishes in 5th place I can't imagine they are getting 3 players on this list. Dev is a likely casualty of a late season dive.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-24-20 11:21 PM - Post#301698
In response to PennFan10
I would expect Goodman to be ahead of Dingle for all-Ivy. Senior, better defender, etc. My guess is Dev is a 2nd teamer, but I could see HM. Can’t imagine he’s shut out. So if Penn doesn’t get 3 on the list, I think Dingle is the casualty (he gets ROY, I think, so he should be recognized).
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-25-20 12:37 AM - Post#301701
In response to SomeGuy
I was only saying Dingle would get ROY and AJ 1st team. I think we get nothing else. Maybe Dev HM.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-25-20 01:30 AM - Post#301703
In response to PennFan10
As of now:
First Team: Swain
Atkinson
Smith
Anderson
Llewelyn
Second Team: Brodeur
Bruner
Kirkwood
Knight
Arirogouza
Honorable Mention- McBride
Lewis
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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02-25-20 08:38 PM - Post#301747
In response to LocalTiger
I think I'd go with:
1st team:
Atkinson (POY)
Brodeur
Swain
Smith
Anderson
2nd team:
Knight
Kirkwood
Llewellyn
Goodman
Lewis
HM:
Aririguzoh
Dingle
Bassey
Love Llewellyn's game a lot but I think his percentages still aren't quite there (if the layups ever stop rimming out they'd look a lot better), and from previous year it seems like seniors tend to get rewarded so I think Anderson gets the nod ahead of him.
Knight also has a good 1st team argument, and I wouldn't be shocked if he gets there or if there's a tie and more than 5 guys end up on the first team.
Similarly could see ties on the 2nd team getting RA a spot there, there's just too many talented big men in the league this season.
Outside of my list, I think Bruner, McBride, Juzang, Choh are all worthy of recognition as well
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-26-20 11:43 AM - Post#301786
In response to welcometothejungle
I’ll hold off until the last four games are played, but as of now I think Bruner is a first teamer, and I could see Yale having 3. I think Monroe will manage HM as well.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-26-20 02:38 PM - Post#301829
In response to SomeGuy
Once the last 4 games are played we'll have the Coaches opinions and ours won't matter much. Why don't you avoid the March Madness rush and weigh in now.
The choices for the last couple spots on the 1st team are going to be competitive and likely will depend on the last 4 games.
I think the 1st Team Locks are:
Atkinson
Brodeur
Anderson
The last 2 spots will be among:
Bruner
Kirkwood
Llewelyn
Smith
Swain
If Yale wins the regular season, They will get one of those last two I would think. Princeton's finish will determine where JL ends up. Some tough choices.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-26-20 04:50 PM - Post#301849
In response to PennFan10
I don’t think Anderson is a lock. He looked great at Penn, of course, but he’s a sub 100 ORAT guy who scores because he shoots a lot. If Brown makes the tourney, that will help, but to me Anderson is well behind Smith if I’m focusing on who scores a lot.
I think Atkinson and Brodeur are the only locks. Yes, I think Brodeur is a lock even if Penn fails to make the tournament, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he even wins POY regardless in what LocalTiger will see as a lifetime achievement award. In a great class that turned out have lots of injuries and defections, you have a guy who going into the final four games of his career has never missed a start or, if I understand correctly, a practice. LocalTiger can call him a compiler, but I think he is the type of compiler that coaches may go out of their way to recognize.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-26-20 05:52 PM - Post#301860
In response to SomeGuy
First Team:
Paul Atkinson (PoY)
AJ Brodeur
Mike Smith
Jaelin Llewellyn
Azar Swain
Second Team:
Brandon Anderson
Chris Lewis
Devon Goodman
Noah Kirkwood
Chris Knight
HM:
Terrence McBride
Richmond Aririguzoh
Jordan Bruner
Tamenang Choh
POY: Smith
ROY: Dingle
DOY: Bassey
- Smith is the most important player to his team, plays more minutes, and scores more than anyone else.
- Brodeur is fading, largely because he is asked to do everything for his team (score, pass, rebound, block shots). He's had some poor performances in meaningful games.
- Bruner's knee is limiting him. Some nights Bruner, Aririzugoh, and Choh just don't contribute.
- Harvard is winning with defense and rebounding, and Bassey is the cornerstone of those efforts.
- Lewis and Knight do more than Aririzugoh has been doing.
- Anderson, Llewellyn and Swain are the cornerstone of their squad's relative successes. Goodman is but to a lesser extent.
- Kirkwood has succeeded Towns and Aiken as Harvard's go to guy.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-26-20 07:29 PM - Post#301865
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Ok, you convinced me.
1st team:
Brodeur
Atkinson
Bruner
Swain
Lewis
2nd team:
Smith
Knight
Goodman
Anderson
Aririgozuh
HM:
Llewellyn
Boeheim
Hunsaker
Choh
Kirkwood
POY: Brodeur
ROY: Dingle
DPY: Bassey
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-26-20 07:36 PM - Post#301866
In response to SomeGuy
Convinced you of what?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-26-20 07:50 PM - Post#301867
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Sorry — PennFan10 said not to wait until the season is done to make our guesses. He convinced me, and then your list further inspired me.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2274
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-20 08:23 PM - Post#301869
In response to SomeGuy
Ok, you convinced me.
2nd team:
Smith
Knight
Goodman
Anderson
Aririgozuh
Happy to see someone put Aririguzoh second team. I don't see the others play much, but I know Princeton would be nowhere without him.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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All-Ivy Teams
02-26-20 10:05 PM - Post#301874
In response to SomeGuy
Brodeur is a nice player but no way he gets POY if the Quakers don’t make the tournament.
Edited by TigerFan on 02-26-20 10:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-26-20 10:09 PM - Post#301875
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Actually, Lewis and Aririzugoh in conference have similar stats, with Lewis possibly having the edge with more scoring, blocks, steals, less TO's. Aririzugoh only has an edge in rebounds, but not necessarily since his first two vs Penn.
How can Aririzugoh average .2 blocks per game in conference?
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