Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-11-20 10:59 AM - Post#304196
I can't remember if the All-Ivy team reflects the full season or the Ivy-only.
But I'm disappointed Brandon didn't get at least an HM nod. 3rd in scoring, 25th rebounding, 9th assists, 4th in steals. And a senior who finishes as the 5th leading scorer all time. How does he go his entire four year career and not even get an HM? Ultimately, it came down to efficiency and shooting and turnovers. And the fact that he wasn't as effective in the Ivy.
I really thought Hunsaker might be in the discussion as well, particularly if the award puts more emphasis on the Ivy season. But the stats themselves probably don't get them there. I just thought he elevated his play so much in the 2nd half of the Ivy.
Happy for Choh who continues to be a do-everything monster, and Gainey, who in limited minutes emerged as Brown's Next Big Thing. It's his emergence that gives Brown a shot to stay in the Ivy tournament discussion next season.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-11-20 11:19 AM - Post#304202
In response to Bruno
I immediately had the same thought about Anderson when I saw the posting. It's hard for me to understand why he's not at least 2nd team.
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HGA
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
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Re: All-Ivy
03-11-20 05:07 PM - Post#304293
In response to Bruno
For Anderson to not be 2nd team is an injustice, and to be accurate, he was 2nd in scoring and 1st in steals. The comments around efficiency and turnovers are fair but they do not overshadow his value to the team. In regards to TO's, it is Cho who has led the Ivy's in TO's for two consecutive years (although I do agree with him receiving all ivy recognition). As far as Anderson's shooting is concerned, his percentage was only slightly lower than Swain's. If Brown had a dominant offensive center and low post game, the floor would've open up a lot for easier looks for all. Ivy coaches knew the consistent scoring was coming from Anderson, Cho, and Hunsacker and the key was to clog the lanes. Additionally, the fact that Yale got three players on 1st team and one on the all defensive selection is an indictment on the league and the power and influence of their coach....they didn't go 14-0! We go 8-6 and tie for the 4th spot and get only one nod????
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-11-20 05:44 PM - Post#304307
In response to HGA
Anderson at his best was not a 2nd teamer, but a 1st teamer.
But consistency counts, and he didn’t have it.
I still can’t understand how he doesn’t get at least HM. It’s just wrong.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-11-20 05:45 PM - Post#304308
In response to Bruno
By the way, I take BA over Swain any day.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3992
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-11-20 06:27 PM - Post#304313
In response to Bruno
I agree with your comments. HM should have been. Don’t know why the weren’t more w2.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-11-20 11:19 PM - Post#304355
In response to Bruno
Despite the fact that Penn shut down Swain both games, and Anderson killed us at the Palestra, I think overall Swain is demonstrably better, at least on offense. He shoots better, doesn’t turn it over, plays within himself and the system, and still uses enough possessions to average over 16ppg. Most of the efficiency and overall play metrics favor Swain by a significant margin. Anderson’s ORAT is low enough that he arguably takes shots that the team would be better off with somebody else taking. Swain does not.
All that said, I am very surprised that neither Anderson nor Hunsaker garnered at least HM. Both were deserving in my book, and I would have expected more players to at least get a vote or two.
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HGA
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 02:32 AM - Post#304362
In response to SomeGuy
Put Swain or any other person on a team with only 3 scorers and no low post game to spread the floor and you’ll see shooting percentages drop and turnovers increase. He only shot 39.8% vs Anderson’s 36.8%. Can’t rationalize 1st team vs no recognition at all. Honestly thought they each would get 2nd team.
Edited by HGA on 03-12-20 02:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 02:51 AM - Post#304363
In response to HGA
The big difference is that Swain shot 39% on threes, with the highest volume in the league (93/240), while Anderson was only at 30% (48/160).
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 07:33 AM - Post#304368
In response to HGA
Well, there’s a chicken and egg problem here. I agree that things start with Atkinson for Yale, but a big part of why he gets to operate so effectively in the post is because he’s got a 40% 3 point shooter that you can’t leave alone on the perimeter. I don’t think Anderson’s game would fit into that.
Both Swain and Anderson have basically been the same guy they were this year throughout their careers, regardless of who is around them. Swain shoots 40% from 3, Anderson shoots 30%. That’s more than a little difference, and statistically it is the difference between someone who should always shoot it and someone who shouldn’t.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 07:37 AM - Post#304369
In response to SomeGuy
Yes they had to play different roles on their teams. Swain a much better three point shooter. Anderson better off the bounce and getting inside and to the line. I like Anderson’s all around game better than Swain’s. But these are both All-Ivy players. I don’t think one is a first teamer and the other is below HM.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-12-20 12:28 PM - Post#304419
In response to Bruno
If I remember correctly the only HM members are players who didn't get enough 2nd team votes to make it into the top 5. It's not a separate category for nomination/vote.
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HGA
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 07:11 PM - Post#304496
In response to Bruno
Agree Bruno. Can't get get my arms around 1st team vs no mention.
Edited by HGA on 03-12-20 07:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 07:47 PM - Post#304498
In response to HGA
Each team submits 5 players for 1st Team and 5 players for 2nd Team. Any player who gets a vote but doesn't fit into the Top 2 teams gets listed as Honorable Mention.
If you were submitting a ballot, which of these players would you remove to include Anderson?
A.J. Brodeur
Paul Atkinson
Jordan Bruner
Noah Kirkwood
Richmond Aririguzoh
Jaelin Llewellyn
Azar Swain
Chris Knight
Tamenang Choh
Mike Smith
Chris Lewis
Yale (3), Harvard (2), Princeton (2), Penn (1), Brown (1), Dartmouth (1), Columbia (1), Cornell (0)
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-12-20 09:01 PM - Post#304502
In response to westcoast
I didn’t have Kirkwood, Llewelyn, or Choh in my top 10. I had Anderson and Goodman as second teamers instead.
I find it particularly surprising that Anderson didn’t get any votes at all. Are we sure that any vote getters get HM? Or is it just whoever is at the next level? So perhaps Goodman and McBride both got two votes, and then a few guys got one? I just find it hard to believe that Anderson, Boeheim, Hunsaker, and Schweiger didn’t get any votes at all. It wasn’t so obvious who should be on the team that onl 12 guys get votes When everyone names 10.
You can see that the analytics are now a big part of the vote. Leaving Mike Smith off first team when his team is 1-13 is one thing. Tougher for nobody to vote for the second leading scorer in the league when his team went 8-6.
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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03-12-20 09:28 PM - Post#304503
In response to SomeGuy
I believe to get honorable mention you need to gain 2 points during voting. Players get 2 points for a 1st team vote and 1 point for a 2nd team vote. So in most cases, 1 vote will not be enough unless that 1 vote is on the 1st team
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HGA
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 03:15 AM - Post#304513
In response to westcoast
Having followed Brown closely, I’d say Choh. The challenge for Harvard is that they are so deep that no one’s stats stand out versus the others. Any given person can shine, but Kirkwood would get the nod over Lewis.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 07:59 AM - Post#304518
In response to HGA
I would have had Anderson over Kirkwood and Llewelyn at the least. Choh was inefficient and turned it over a ton. But he also had the toughest job on the team, and he did it all. He’s an All-Ivy player.
Impossible to think Anderson didn’t get votes. Makes no sense.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 10:47 AM - Post#304539
In response to Bruno
Impossible to think Anderson didn’t get votes. Makes no sense.
I suspect he lost all of the mental tiebreakers.
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HGA
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 11:22 AM - Post#304544
In response to Silver Maple
LOL! Thought both Anderson and Cho deserved 2nd team.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 11:47 AM - Post#304547
In response to HGA
Sometimes politics and personal biases can get involved. I remember years ago an Ivy coach saying that he would never vote for Penn’s Mike Jordan for All-Ivy under any circumstances. So who knows what goes on.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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03-13-20 12:11 PM - Post#304549
In response to SomeGuy
When you have 8 teams and only 10 spots, it's unlikely to get two players from a lower division team. It's not surprising that the league champion had three, while the 2nd and 3rd place finishers had two, and every other team had one or zero (Cornell).
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy
03-13-20 12:35 PM - Post#304550
In response to SomeGuy
Yes some of us New Yorkers are still not over what Michael Jordan has done to us.
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