welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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04-23-20 12:52 PM - Post#306552
https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/college-basket...
Some interesting stuff from the guys at Three Man Weave, who pulled the 2018-19 MBB budgets for all D1 schools in the country (with the exceptions of Army, Navy, Air Force, and LIU). Some Ivy notes:
The Ivy is 29th out of 32 conferences in average budget at $1.4 million, ahead of only the Southland, the MEAC and the SWAC. By median budget the Ivy moves up a spot to 28th, passing the Ohio Valley Conference.
Here's how each school ranks nationall within the league:
225. Penn - $2,049,825
290. Harvard - $1,474,941
295. Columbia - $1,445,658
297. Yale - $1,416,853
305. Princeton - $1,342,776
317. Brown - $1,239,495
330. Cornell - $1,143,930
332. Dartmouth - $1,131,199
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: MBB Budgets
04-23-20 02:35 PM - Post#306558
In response to welcometothejungle
Interesting how well the league has done despite this.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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MBB Budgets
04-23-20 03:01 PM - Post#306570
In response to SomeGuy
Is the cost of an athletic scholarship considered an expenditure of the men's basketball program at a non-Ivy school, and, therefore, is reflected in their (necessarily higher) budget?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: MBB Budgets
04-23-20 03:28 PM - Post#306572
In response to Stuart Suss
Stu - I was thinking the exact same thing...
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: MBB Budgets
04-23-20 04:00 PM - Post#306575
In response to Stuart Suss
And conversely, does it exclude amount of fin aid given to ivy players under their formulas (I imagine it does considering how the league disclaims athletic financial support, in favor of general aid.)
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3994
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-23-20 07:18 PM - Post#306582
In response to sparman
I;m not sure that all of the budgets are uniformly calculated.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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04-23-20 09:30 PM - Post#306585
In response to Old Bear
Penn looks to be out of line with the rest of the League.
Amy ideas as to why?
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-24-20 07:47 AM - Post#306591
In response to LocalTiger
I'd go back to OB's post. Unless all of the institutions are calculating and categorizing all costs in exactly the same way (which I'm virtually positive they're not), the reported budgets really aren't comparable.
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Bryan
Junior
Posts: 231
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-24-20 10:04 AM - Post#306596
In response to Silver Maple
Are coaches salaries counted in the MBB budgets? Are they counted when coaches have titles suggesting an endowment for a position is involved? For example, Mitch Henderson is the Franklin C. Cappon-Edward G. Green ’40 head coach of Princeton men’s basketball. That makes it sound like much or all of his compensation is not coming directly from the MBB budget.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-24-20 10:47 AM - Post#306597
In response to Bryan
Coach salaries are only one confounding factor-- although one that has the potential to be pretty huge. Another is overhead allocations. Depending on how the institution accounts for university-wide and athletic department fixed costs, this could create major budget differences across programs in the conference.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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04-24-20 12:18 PM - Post#306606
In response to Silver Maple
From looking at the data source, these numbers are a roll-up of responses to specific standardized questions from a federal authority. Among the uses of the data are determining
compliance with Tittle IX and other federal requirements.
I am not sure we should assume there is a lot of wiggle room
in providing the data. There may be some variation, but
I doubt it explains a 30 percent variance.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-24-20 12:22 PM - Post#306607
In response to LocalTiger
Maybe maintenance on a large nearly 100 year old Arena has something to do with it.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-24-20 12:26 PM - Post#306608
In response to Streamers
And they built a practice facility and put in a new Palestra floor in the last 2 years that likely is incorporated into costs.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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04-24-20 04:13 PM - Post#306629
In response to palestra38
Facilities are not part of the calculation- head coach salary,
assistant coach salaries, scholarships ( 0 for Ivies), recruiting,
And game day expenses.
It looks like HYP are getting more bang for the buck.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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04-24-20 05:00 PM - Post#306635
In response to LocalTiger
Posted wrong place
How do we think all in compensation for head coaches shakes out?
I have amaker on top but otherwise...
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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04-24-20 05:05 PM - Post#306636
In response to james
And the above poster is correct
Some of the operating costs are covered by the foundation which in Yale’s case covers things like overseas trips etc and some discretionary stuff based on the head coach’s predilection
It’s investing alongside the actual university endowment
So that is not factored in but I presume it to be a similar waterfall based on tradition etc
Harvard might have more bf of Steve balmer and some other heavyweights should support the program I am not sure which is why I ask the above
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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04-24-20 05:22 PM - Post#306637
In response to james
For the purpose this data is collected, I do not think it matters if payment comes from an endowment, booster or regular operating expenses.
If that made a difference, the big football schools could
fund everything from those sources with no concern for gender equity.
I understand that schools with endowed coaching chairs or funds for overseas trips may gain an advantage from those resources, especiallly in the current constrained environment,
But those differences do not explain Penn's bigger budget here.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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04-24-20 07:47 PM - Post#306645
In response to LocalTiger
To the extent a foundation covers things recurringly why would this be posted as a part of this disclosure
Can you figure out how much coach k makes a year? I have heard it’s 10mm+
Do they include this in their database given it’s likely all covered by a foundation or booster program beyond his base?
It’s a question. I don’t know the answer bc I haven’t scoured it.
I have heard amaker makes close to 1mm all in. Is that included in these numbers or does that just mean Donahue makes 1.3mm ?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-24-20 08:41 PM - Post#306647
In response to james
Donahue makes less than half of Amaker, and that doesn't include Amaker's wife or his house.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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04-24-20 09:34 PM - Post#306648
In response to palestra38
Dike's reported budget is over 22 million, so I don't think you can assume it is not all in regardless of source.
The answer too why a recurring foundation payment would be included is because those dollars affect gender equity, one of the purposes of reporting.
I don't know what AMA,era makes relative to Donahue, but if it is in fact twice as much, then Penn's spending on recruiting, assistants and travel dwarfs Harvard and everyone else.
The narrative about who has the resources seems seriously in question.
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