palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-20-20 01:16 PM - Post#307644
In response to penn nation
It is, but what it would not show is that people in relatively good health are dying in numbers. Which means as we go forward (unless I am wrong about this) is that we must do more to protect those at high risk and allow the return to smart, but new-normal behavior for everyone else. More than that belongs down in the OTB
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-20-20 01:41 PM - Post#307645
In response to palestra38
While it is disappointing to see reports of data being manipulated, I'm not so much referring to the data, which is a outcome statistic but rather the medical understanding that can impact the process of treating the disease. Our understanding of how the virus is spread, ability to test rapidly and accurately, ability to treat severe cases and progress toward a vaccine are all part of the potential acceleration of information. Any successes in those areas will lead to greater and greater comfort with the associated risk.
The data would, in turn, be expected to show that success.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-20-20 01:51 PM - Post#307647
In response to mrjames
I can appreciate that distinction.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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05-20-20 05:14 PM - Post#307655
In response to penn nation
Lots of uncertainty for sure. I would have thought the NBA and NHL would have resumed by now but understand it's complicated. It's disappointing but I can't see going to any sporting event or concert until vaccine or until the chances of catching are very low. I was hoping to add a few MLB parks to my list of those attended this year so that makes me sad but we all just need to adjust. Glad I am retired and don't need to worry about going to an office. Daughter struggling with decision of whether or not to send grandson to preschool in August--largely because we will help provide day care and she worries about us catching. Strange times indeed. Hopefully we can start getting some sports on TV but generally think it would be good for college sports to take a year off.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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05-20-20 10:27 PM - Post#307657
In response to OldBig5
I absolutely do not understand why we want to tell young adults that they shouldn't be allowed to participate in college sports for the next year (or more?). They've been inundated with fuzzy numbers and propaganda from ALL sides for the last few months. And it's only been a few months.
As our future leaders, it's time for them to think critically, balance their aspirations and risks, and move forward. Maybe some will shelter in place until our generation tells them it's Ok, that's it's finally "safe" to live their lives. Others will go to the gym and pursue their dreams.
It's not for us to decide. Our generation's decision is how many TVs we want in our basement, and who is best at delivering our food and drink. Some of us will actually go out and cheer for the generation that embraces their lives, and not tell them what they can't do.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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05-20-20 10:29 PM - Post#307658
In response to gopenngo
Well, ready or not (and we're not)...here we go...
https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/20/nc aa-college...
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-21-20 04:21 PM - Post#307716
In response to palestra38
You mentioned waivers. What kind of waivers?
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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05-21-20 05:45 PM - Post#307720
In response to 10Q
I'll let P38 answer for himself (he's good at it) but I assume that what he was referring to will be a requirement by the schools that if the student enrolls, s/he waives his/her right to sue the school for providing education in a format different (i.e. online) from what had been described originally (in person classes, ability to interact with other students and faculty, etc.). There is currently a slew of litigation where students are alleging that by offering online classes this semester, the students did not receive education having the value they paid for.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-21-20 09:18 PM - Post#307731
In response to SteveChop
Penn outlines four possible scenarios for fall 2020, will finalize plan by end of June
https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/05/penn- update-...
- In the case that on-campus activities resume, the University outlined efforts to ensure campus safety amid the pandemic.
The ‘Public Health Social Compact’ would require students, faculty, and staff to wear facial masks, practice six-feet physical distancing measures, and avoid large gatherings of 25 or more people, including all extracurricular activities. -
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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05-21-20 09:32 PM - Post#307733
In response to rbg
Getting up and down the elevators in the High Rises could take a while, too.
Penn outlines four possible scenarios for fall 2020, will finalize plan by end of June
https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/05/penn- update-...
- In the case that on-campus activities resume, the University outlined efforts to ensure campus safety amid the pandemic.
The ‘Public Health Social Compact’ would require students, faculty, and staff to wear facial masks, practice six-feet physical distancing measures, and avoid large gatherings of 25 or more people, including all extracurricular activities. -
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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05-22-20 11:24 PM - Post#307818
In response to penn nation
It is time to acknowledge that we have taken part in a monumental overreaction to a troubling but relatively normal physical phenomenon.
Colleges are a classic example, being populated by a group of people largely immune to the contagion.
As to the cancellation of extracurricular activities. I suggest that such activities teach young people more useful lessons that what takes place in the class rooms. That certainly was true for me.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-23-20 05:33 AM - Post#307821
In response to UPIA1968
It's a result of a 2 month underreaction. When suddenly, people were dying and the hospitals were overrun, there was an equal overreaction. You wouldn't have had the latter without the former.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 12:20 PM - Post#307829
In response to palestra38
Hey P38, we wholeheartedly agree on this one!
Also, there was a flawed premise. Students are not “immune.†They would become infected but be less likely than most of the population to suffer serious consequences. They would, however, be contagious. University staff, professors and local residents would be at greater risk around campus. Everyone would have been at risk once the semester had ended and students went home or on to wherever. Not worth explaining the lessons we learned from New Rochelle and Biogen all over again. Sort of creepy to suggest that we should ignore the impact on others because students might not fare so poorly. If that means I just called some politicians willing to sacrifice the elderly and vulnerable creepy, maybe I should use a stronger term.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 05-23-20 12:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 01:47 PM - Post#307833
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I know we're all trained to be skeptical of Ivy presidents and their feelings toward their institution's athletic programs, but... some things to keep in mind here.
President Bacow put a stop to the Ivy Tourney after looking at the evidence and realizing that the virus was spreading rapidly and there was no guarantee that it wouldn't be in the building that weekend potentially to infect some very at risk segments of the population that would be attending. In fact, President Bacow, himself, was on the border of the most at-risk demographic.
Despite cancelling the tourney and taking precautions, President Bacow contracted the virus, and he and his wife had a long battle with it and recovery from it. It's hard to imagine anyone both more personally and professionally aware of the risks associated with this virus among a campus community - and by COMMUNITY, I mean ALL that are part of the campus, not just the 18-22 year old undergrads.
I trust President Bacow to make a prudent decision here that puts the safety of the entire community first, and I'm happy to wait for athletics to resume until the safety of all involved can be guaranteed at the level that all members of the community would expect if they were living their daily lives abiding by the governing social protocols. If that means no 2020-21, so be it. This is a pandemic we haven't seen on these shores in 100 years. Maybe it's good that this country's vapid generations that have been untouched by true crisis at our doorstep finally get a clue that the world isn't always going to be a safe bubble where the greatest concern is the number of likes on an Instagram account and the greatest indignation is insensitive speech.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 02:41 PM - Post#307837
In response to mrjames
Agreed in full. I am sick of the selfishness that accompanies the opposing view. It affects ALL OF US.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 03:40 PM - Post#307842
In response to mrjames
This is a pandemic we haven't seen on these shores in 100 years. Maybe it's good that this country's vapid generations that have been untouched by true crisis at our doorstep finally get a clue that the world isn't always going to be a safe bubble where the greatest concern is the number of likes on an Instagram account and the greatest indignation is insensitive speech.
Agreed, but I have my doubts as to whether the lessons are being learned in some cases. Vapidity is a lingering thing.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 11:08 PM - Post#307856
In response to Quakers03
Please keep in mind that denying 30 million Americans their jobs and incomes has an alarming degree of selfishness.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 11:18 PM - Post#307857
In response to UPIA1968
Please keep in mind that denying 30 million Americans their jobs and incomes has an alarming degree of selfishness.
Human life comes first.
No-one likes the fact that people are out of work. That is why the Democrats pushed to include a $600/week unemployment benefits in one of the stimulus bills.
I'd be much more concerned about individuals who are FORCED to go to work despite very serious health risks, such as the meat packing plants. The states where those plants are located are denying those workers unemployment benefits if they refuse to show up due to health concerns--even though the Feds have not forced any of these workplaces to take any measures to protect the safety of these workers.
The result? A lot more sick people as a result, and more deaths as well.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Will there be a BBall Season? What will it look like?
05-23-20 11:28 PM - Post#307858
In response to UPIA1968
Please keep in mind that denying 30 million Americans their jobs and incomes has an alarming degree of selfishness.
Take a look around the country this weekend. Tell me how many masks you see. What word would you use other than selfish?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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05-24-20 12:25 AM - Post#307859
In response to Quakers03
The astounding thing about this is that people around the world have shown us how to save lives AND go back to work. In Hong Kong, kids are going back to school. They are taught to practice hygiene in bathrooms and wear masks. People have been wearing masks since the beginning, without any complaints. Travelers entering face mandatory quarantines, with verification by cell phone. They do contact tracing of people found positive. This is allowing people to go back to work, go back to school, and spend time together socially. The people who are complaining loudest are the ones preventing us from returning to a normal-fish life.
I don't know if it was an over-reaction, but I would agree that shutting down the entire non-essential economy was pretty draconian and indiscriminate. There are certainly more workplaces that could have gone back earlier with proper safety measures in place.
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