91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-28-20 03:42 PM - Post#308063
Wrote about the year and revealed he played with a broken hand the whole year:
https://www.thesidelinepost.com/stories/the-marath...
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21205
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Dev Goodman piece
05-28-20 03:46 PM - Post#308067
In response to 91Quake
Wow.
That gives the Harvard coaching staff a run for their money on the injury secrecy front.
Only here, we didn't even know he was injured to begin with!
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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05-28-20 03:49 PM - Post#308068
In response to penn nation
How in the world does one play through a broken wrist on the shooting hand??
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-28-20 05:21 PM - Post#308074
In response to Quakers03
Wow... certainly could explain the dip in his 3 point shooting % as well. Loved Dev's game, but even more respect now!
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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05-28-20 08:50 PM - Post#308079
In response to Quakers03
How in the world does one play through a broken wrist on the shooting hand??
With one hell of a lot of guts. I'd say that was a performance worthy of a Darnell Foreman Award.
Imagine where we might have ended up had Goodman not been able to play through the injury.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-28-20 09:09 PM - Post#308082
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Weinhauer's Ghost wondered:
<<Imagine where we might have ended up had Goodman not been able to play through the injury.>>
Without Devon Goodman, Penn would have finished in the middle of the Ivy League standings and would have, for the 12th time in 13 seasons, failed to win or share an Ivy League title.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8257
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-28-20 09:29 PM - Post#308085
In response to Mike Porter
Wow... certainly could explain the dip in his 3 point shooting % as well. Loved Dev's game, but even more respect now!
I second that!
We said repeatedly this was a very high-character, highly resilient group. It all makes so much sense.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: Dev
05-28-20 09:39 PM - Post#308086
In response to Stuart Suss
Stu,
Are you saying that Devon did not make a significant difference in Penn's results this year. Knowing your commentary, you must has some stats that support that. What are they?
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-29-20 12:33 AM - Post#308090
In response to UPIA1968
UPIA 1968:
I was not diminishing either Devon's contribution to the team or Devon's courage in playing while injured.
My point was more subtle than that.
The question was posed as to "where we might have ended up" without Devon. That question assumed that, with Devon, Penn had ended up somewhere good, a place Penn would not have ended up without Devon.
Playing with Devon, Penn ended up tied for 4th place, and Penn failed to win (or share) an Ivy title for the 12th time in the last 13 seasons. Playing without Devon, Penn would also have failed to win (or share) an Ivy title for the 12th time in the past 13 seasons.
Whatever the final record would have been without Devon is irrelevant. There are only two places in the standings, first place and last place. Penn finished in last place with Devon and would have finished in last place without him.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-29-20 06:06 AM - Post#308091
In response to Stuart Suss
Bitterness is unbecoming.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-29-20 09:01 AM - Post#308096
In response to Stuart Suss
I see it another way.
The goal should be to go to the NCAA tournament, and the team had qualified for the ILT. Penn was a mixture of seniors and freshmen last year. As usual, they were not ready to play in January after the layoff. However, they looked strong headed into the ILT. The team felt like they were ready to win the ILT, and I thought their play at the end of the year supported that attitude. Without Devon, I do not believe they would have been in the same position.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Dev Goodman piece
05-29-20 09:28 AM - Post#308099
In response to Stuart Suss
Point well taken, Stu. My comment was merely meant to reflect the fact that without Goodman, we likely don't manage to scrounge the #4 seed, given the current environment. I am fully on board with your contention that the only options are victory or failure. The current environment just gives us another path to victory, and I have to agree with condor's contention that we had as good a chance of winning it as anyone else did.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 05-29-20 09:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dev Goodman piece
05-29-20 09:39 AM - Post#308100
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I think the essence of his point, which he states outright, is that anything other than a first place 14 game tournament finish is losing and pales in comparison with the teams of the past. The League is in a different universe than it was then. The combination of Harvard hiring a big time coach and the financial aid changes among the Ivy schools with the biggest endowments makes it impossible for Penn to dominate as it once did. Donahue took a team in the depths from a coach with both coaching and morality deficiencies and brought it back to competitiveness, winning one title and making every tournament so far. Questioning that record bespeaks a motive other than the quality and direction of the program.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-29-20 10:41 AM - Post#308103
In response to palestra38
fellas, reflecting both my lesser interest in the season as it wore on and the fact that the pandemic makes this feel like this season happened 10 years ago as opposed to 10 weeks ago, I think it's useful to point out we finished 3 and 3 in our last 6 games. yes we were on a 3 game winning streak but those wins came against places 5, 7, 8. we had a shot in the tourney, but let's not pretend we were anything but a less than 30% chance to win.
i swear by a few years from now you guys will have handed us a win in the field of 64.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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05-29-20 10:45 AM - Post#308104
In response to Jeff2sf
I think it's more of the players talking this way than the fans. They obviously felt good about their chances.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-29-20 11:34 AM - Post#308105
In response to Quakers03
There remain a few of us ("we few, we happy few, we band of brothers") who do not believe that 1981 and 1996 "Ivy League co-champion" banners should fly in the Palestra. The league rules may permit it, but the 1981 and 1996 teams each lost the playoff game, failed to advance to the NCAA tournament, and do not deserve banners.
So, I invite you to tell us: For how much longer does "better than the 'coaching and morality deficiencies' of the past" remain the standard of adequacy (tied for fourth place), and when shall it be time to hold Penn men's basketball to a standard of excellence?
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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Dev Goodman piece
05-29-20 11:59 AM - Post#308107
In response to Stuart Suss
What do you suggest be done to "hold Penn basketball to a standard of excellence"? We know we can't get anywhere going to the top or changing the structure, so is is the coaching staff with whom you have issues?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dev Goodman piece
05-29-20 12:09 PM - Post#308109
In response to Quakers03
...the coaching staff which inherited 8 years of terrible losing basketball and scandal and turned it around with a legit (no fake banner) championship and a 24-9 team and two injury-riddled seasons where the team still made the Ivy playoff? I see no objectively based complaint about the job of this coaching staff.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-29-20 12:10 PM - Post#308110
In response to Quakers03
I don't know but Donahue should get at least the amount of time Jerome Allen got no? JA was at the helm for 6 years and SD spend the first few pulling us out of the abyss JA created. So let's give him some time to get us back to the top. I'd say he gets another 3 years at least.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8257
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-29-20 12:12 PM - Post#308111
In response to palestra38
We can lament the injuries and the fact that we do not have the recruiting advantages that we once had, but does anyone here really believe this coaching staff did not get the best out of the talent they had available to play?
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