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Username Post: New 2021 Recruiting Thread        (Topic#24423)
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1439

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
06-20-20 02:51 PM - Post#309316    
    In response to PennFan10

PennFan10:

What were the AAU backgrounds of the following Chicago area recruits?

Marin Kukoc: Highland Park
Dan Monckton: Glenbrook South
Rob Belcore: Loyola Academy
Tony Hicks: St. Rita
Dan Dwyer: Fenwick



 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
06-20-20 03:08 PM - Post#309317    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Hicks was a Nike guy for one of the two Nike teams I believe. Belcore played for I’ll Wolves. Dan Dwyer played for a no show team if o recall. No idea about the other two.

 
nychoops 
Junior
Posts: 239

Reg: 11-23-04
06-20-20 07:45 PM - Post#309320    
    In response to PennFan10

Monckton played with Rising Stars with Jeffrey Jordan


 
weinhauers_ghost 
Postdoc
Posts: 2125

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
06-20-20 09:53 PM - Post#309323    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:


In addition the Wolves had Chasson Randle who starred at Stanford and played a year with the Knicks so they are obviously a fertile ground for occasional Ivy recruits.





I liked Randle's game a lot when he was at Stanford. Saw them win the NIT championship at MSG his junior year. Unfortunately, he wasn't quick enough or a good enough playmaker at the point to stick in the NBA, and he wasn't tall enough to be an effective 2 guard. Last I heard he was playing in China.

 
OldBig5 
Masters Student
Posts: 639

Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
06-22-20 02:15 PM - Post#309396    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Yes Randle played most of the year in China after the previous season with the Wizards. He signed a 10-day contract with the Warriors which was cut short bt COVID 19.

Good player; just not quite regular NBA quality even as a backup.

 
welcometothejungle 
Masters Student
Posts: 788

Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
New 2021 Recruiting Thread
06-22-20 05:11 PM - Post#309416    
    In response to OldBig5

https://twitter.com/CBHSbasketball/status /12751731...

Penn has extended an offer to Reese McMullen, a 6'3" guard from Christian Brothers High School in Memphis, TN. He currently has offers from Dartmouth, Lipscomb, Holy Cross, and Army, and Princeton and Yale have both expressed interest as well

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
New 2021 Recruiting Thread
06-23-20 02:13 AM - Post#309425    
    In response to welcometothejungle

Casey Simmons has cut his list down to 7. Penn did not make the cut, but Princeton and Yale did.

Top 100ish wing who Penn offered a year ago (as far as I can tell, before Princeton and Yale), so that’s a bit disappointing to be out of it.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/re cruitin...

Ed Holland III is cutting his list down later this week (Princeton, Yale, Columbia, and Princeton have offered as well), so that’s the next one to watch.

 
Quake Show 
Junior
Posts: 218

Reg: 03-04-20
06-23-20 03:10 AM - Post#309426    
    In response to Mike Porter

Definitely a disappointment, he could clearly have been a centerpiece around which the 2021 class fell into place - definitely the highest ranked player we’d have ever signed.

Before the pandemic, he was slated to take an official to Penn and I’m wondering how that may have changed things. I think it also introduces the perspective of how the coaching staff’s recruiting approach differs from our peers. Time and time again when it comes to the question of which schools are recruiting guys the hardest, we’re not mentioned. This has been stated in interviews with Simmons, Noah Harris, Stevie Mitchell, Ed Holland, etc. If it’s a trend that’s public information, one has to wonder why the strategy hasn’t adapted to it.

I’ve listened to radio interviews that Donahue has done, and the strategy currently is to call recruits every so often and break down their game, send them clips, chat, etc. Is it difficult to up that number / are there restrictions making that more difficult? I understand from a recruit’s perspective how having many suitors can dilute your impression of a singular program, so increasing contact seems like a no brainer to me.

We’re all clear how after the disappointing results of the 2020 class (not at all to diminish our current recruits, but we missed on some high priority targets [BIGS]) how 2021 is critical. Still, we’ve yet to hear any good news. To match Harvard in recruiting at the moment is a stretch for any Ivy, perhaps Yale we could compete with more, but Princeton definitely. As it stands head to head, we’re sliding into the second tier of the league - maybe even to be eclipsed by Brown.

I apologize if I sound frustrated. I just see the amount of work needing to be done to get back to the NCAA tournament (and perhaps the dream of a 2-bid league) drastically increasing as we miss on priority targets. My god I wish we had Harvard’s problem of too much depth.

 
20Penn14 
Senior
Posts: 364

Reg: 02-26-12
06-23-20 01:43 PM - Post#309442    
    In response to Quake Show

I do wonder if some of the perceived lack of communication is due to the penalties from the Jerome Allen saga. I believe Penn lost some recruiting days and the ability to contact recruits so I imagine that can harm players first impression of Penn

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 02:09 PM - Post#309443    
    In response to 20Penn14

I cannot believe anyone out-works the Penn staff for recruits. But as long as the ground rules favor HY and Pr, and let's be real, while Penn is a great school, most non-athletic recruits go to those schools if they get into them over Penn.

We are talking about (despite what Mike says) a serious structural disadvantage in recruiting, where we have virtually no ability to take a player they cannot take and they can offer better FA plus they have better brands in terms of perceived diploma value. Is it possible that getting a big time coach with serious AAU ties (like Amaker) would help? Yes, but....

We have no road to dominance right now---we have to simply pick players they miss and develop them while hoping we won't succumb to a rash of injuries, since we will never have Harvard's depth under current conditions. But if the fact that Harvard seems to be able to recruit guys we are after who might not ever see the court there given how many they are recruiting doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

Again, that doesn't mean we can't beat those guys--I really like the team we have. But we simply will not get guys they want.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
06-23-20 02:25 PM - Post#309446    
    In response to Quake Show

I don’t think Brown has eclipsed us. It’s actually trending the other way. Since Steve got here, we’ve finished ahead of Brown all 5 years. They’ve never made the Ivy tournament, and we’ve made it every year. Before Steve got here, we had finished behind them three years in a row. They finished ahead of us most years in the Miller/Allen era, but not since.

I know mike James is down on our class, but both teams got 4 recruits this year, and it seems pretty clear we got the best two. Similarly, while the difference in the Ivy W/L was razor thin this year, we were way ahead of Brown in Pomeroy. Statistically, Brown and Dartmouth were indistinguishable. Brown got a couple more bounces and the boost of starting the league season with a bunch of the easiest home games.

We could be in for a fight for the Ivy tournament this year, but Dartmouth is much more likely to be our problem. Brown lost a lot of everything in Hunsaker and a lot of volume in Anderson.


 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 02:33 PM - Post#309447    
    In response to SomeGuy

If anyone on these boards *is* in a position to solve this problem (never know where boosters/huge donors are lurking), it'd be helpful to identify what the real problem is. And what I'm reading here... ain't it.

Penn could be bringing in classes that are competitive for best in the league tomorrow. Any belief otherwise is misguided.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 02:37 PM - Post#309448    
    In response to mrjames

If you are suggesting that Penn spend as much as Harvard is on basketball, I would ask as the booster coming forward with the money "What is my return?" For with an unequal playing field, simply matching Harvard's expenditure won't do it. Especially where there is no chance any significant share of the investment will be recouped.

Yes, getting an Amaker level coach would help our recruiting efforts. We still would lose all the head to head battles for recruits.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 03:42 PM - Post#309455    
    In response to palestra38

There's just so much wrong with how you view what Harvard did, and it's inhibiting you from seeing how Penn could do the same.

Harvard didn't spend on basketball. It spent on Amaker. It spent on his vision for Harvard.

The right coach that could embrace the Penn community (especially Wharton), its iconic facility in The Palestra and understand that there's a huge advantage at and around the AI floor... a narrow, but clear window where the team has the ability to be relatively unimpeded in the pursuit of recruits... that coach is out there. Penn decided not even to skate to where the puck is, but rather to where the puck was. And now, we're where the puck was going, and Penn has fallen even further behind.

 
Quake Show 
Junior
Posts: 218

Reg: 03-04-20
06-23-20 03:58 PM - Post#309457    
    In response to mrjames

As a current Penn student, I completely agree.

My friends at Harvard know Amaker and know the team: by virtue of his efforts to bring in the community and the work of the Athletics Department to build excitement around the program. Penn’s outreach to current students regarding the team is laughable, at best.

Emails are sent to student ~after~ they choose to sign up for emails or go to a game - essentially it is beholden on the students to learn of the games and follow the team. Student ticketing is awful, and I know you alums have issues with the ticketing office, but with a Palestra that is routinely NOT sold out for every home game last year - why do they find it acceptable to charge students once 250 tickets are given out? If they want interest, all students should be able to go for free always (maybe Villanova is the exception), not turned away at the door.

Those students driving engagement either come into Penn with knowledge and interest in the program or are close with members of the team. Otherwise, students could really care less. That’s less beholden on Donahue as it is the AD, but mrjames is right that the Amaker-level of outreach simply isn’t there.

Our social media presence is minimal, as well. I can look up videos from a little over a decade ago with at least 1000 students going berserk. A lot of that shift has to do with Jerome Allen’s destroying the programs luster, but a competitive team should be able to draw students. Say what you want about John J Lee or Levities, but at least the crowds there are loud and look sold out on TV. Much easier to sell that than an empty Palestra.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 03:58 PM - Post#309458    
    In response to mrjames

It was never a budgetary constraint. It was a constraint imposed by our President who nixed a plan to put a high salary coach in place, a transaction that was all but done. She felt no Penn coach should be paid that amount considering the salaries of most full time professors. Maybe she’s right.

The result though Jerome Allen and all that followed.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 04:04 PM - Post#309459    
    In response to mrjames

With everything being equal, had Penn gotten an Amaker level coach, would Penn be winning the battles with Harvard?

No.

And your opinion is just that---your opinion. I give Amaker credit for his AAU ties, but give us a break--any coach at his level could do what he has done at Harvard. He has essentially a product that sells itself and at the end of the day he says, "Wouldn't you like to have a Harvard degree and be one of us?" There's nothing magical about that. Please stop trying to say there is.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
06-23-20 04:13 PM - Post#309460    
    In response to AsiaSunset

  • AsiaSunset Said:
It was never a budgetary constraint. It was a constraint imposed by our President who nixed a plan to put a high salary coach in place, a transaction that was all but done. She felt no Penn coach should be paid that amount considering the salaries of most full time professors. Maybe she’s right.

The result though Jerome Allen and all that followed.



I take it you mean Fran M? I do wonder what his level could have done for our program.


 
Quake Show 
Junior
Posts: 218

Reg: 03-04-20
06-23-20 04:24 PM - Post#309463    
    In response to Quakers03

I won’t pretend to have as much knowledge of the history of the program. What I know of it is essentially present information.

However, the debate over whether or not we can compete with Harvard is somewhat dilatory at this point. With the exception of a few recruits, we don’t go after the same players if the last few years are any indication.

Both schools have many different institutional advantages, and many similarities. A good recruiter should be able to market those effectively. Anything that draws upon the line of “oh we can’t compete because of the Harvard name” or “our FA packages aren’t quite as generous (despite my friends and I’s having been matched from other ivys)” is defeatist. It also somewhat demeans recruits to evaluate their decision process if the brand name is the only thing they care about.

Penn has many very attractive and unique qualities that should attract recruits from all levels and of most ceilings. The fact that we have to rely on developing overlooked talent because we struggle to land our top targets says a lot.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
06-23-20 04:36 PM - Post#309465    
    In response to Quake Show

We indeed have gone up against Harvard a lot in recent years. I'm not saying that you are incorrect that we have a lot to sell, but you are incorrect that we necessarily can be marketed to a different recruiting base than Harvard--the AI ensures that.

I think you'll see that Steve did a helluva job last year though. And if Jelani Williams comes back with Wang and Bryce, we can compete for a title. But the fundamental lopsided playing field in the Ivies is what it is.

 
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