rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3059
Reg: 10-20-14
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11-30-20 02:33 PM - Post#317487
In response to palestra38
The Executive Director did not mention fairness when interviewed by ESPN after the announcement. She was not asked about having a short season bubble between the fall & spring semesters and did not offer that information on her own.
11-15-20 02:26 PM - Post#316749
Freddie Coleman of ESPN interviewed Robin Harris (9 minutes long) about the cancelled season.
https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/ESP1407137613? sel...
When asked about a bubble (4 minutes mark), Harris said that a season long bubble was not feasible since the student athletes live and interact with other students.
She did not expand on that answer or mention anything regarding cost, logistics or fairness with the other winter sports.
After her short bubble answer, she said they talked about travel for a team to go to another Ivy school on a charter bus creating a 'modified travel bubble'. With schools restricting travel for everyone, it was also determined not to be feasible.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-20 02:53 PM - Post#317488
In response to rbg
No, she gave no reasons. I'm responding to a specific argument made here.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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11-30-20 04:23 PM - Post#317490
In response to palestra38
I decided to experience self-inflicted pain and listen to the 9 minute interview and try to understand what really drove this decision. Robin did reinforce the notion that the decision came from within the university community (academic) and then reached the athletic teams. There was no attempt to look as to how to carve out athletic teams and then look at the effect, if any, on the university community. It simply reinforced the notion that athletic teams are second or possibly third in line. She also mentioned that it is a lot of work to carve out the athletic teams and let them play.
I thought about the notion that there are simply no good choices so therefore being the only conference to cancel justifies the end. I believe that the opposite holds true that you need great leadership to deal with extremely challenging situations and develop a thoughtful, rational approach similar to the Dukes of this world. I highly doubt that Robin is the type of person who brings a contrarian view to the IL President's table for careful thoughtful analysis but maybe I am wrong. Her track record regarding IvyMadness is self-explanatory both from decision making and communication .
Some of my non-IL sports enthusiasts are really not surprised at all as their comment is that after all, it is the IL.
Robin finally commented that IL fans will come back in force after this season. Let's check back on her grip on reality.
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bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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11-30-20 04:24 PM - Post#317491
In response to palestra38
I decided to experience self-inflicted pain and listen to the 9 minute interview and try to understand what really drove this decision. Robin did reinforce the notion that the decision came from within the university community and then reached the athletic teams. There was no attempt to look as to how to carve out athletic teams and then look at the effect, if any, on the university community. It simply reinforced the notion that athletic teams are like the dog wagging its' tail. She also mentioned that it is a lot of work to carve out the athletic teams and let them play.
I thought about the notion that there are simply no good choices so therefore being the only conference to cancel justifies the end. I believe that the opposite holds true that you need great leadership to deal with extremely challenging situations and develop a thoughtful, rational approach similar to the Dukes of this world. I highly doubt that Robin is the type of person who brings a contrarian view to the IL President's table for careful thoughtful analysis but maybe I am wrong. Her track record regarding IvyMadness is self-explanatory.
Some of my non-IL sports enthusiasts are really not surprised at all as their comment is that after all, it is the IL.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-20 04:36 PM - Post#317492
In response to bradley
I decided to experience self-inflicted pain and read your two identical posts ....
but seriously, I'd understand that better (and especially the leadership in the cancel dept by Harvard) if we hadn't seen Harvard invest more in its program than the rest of the league combined in the past 10 or so years. Harvard obviously deeply cares about basketball and wants to play and win at basketball. So if we're talking about a relative pittance to play in a bubble for 6 or so weeks, it's all about the look. This isn't last year--we know a lot more now and an option exists to make it safe. It's just seen as bad PR, despite the fact that showing everyone else how to do it right could be a PR bonanza.
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bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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11-30-20 06:05 PM - Post#317495
In response to palestra38
Pretty funny - apologize for the eye strain.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 06:35 PM - Post#317497
In response to palestra38
Therein may lie our disconnect.
Basketball predominates the pysche at Penn, especially circa 1970's.
Cornell cares about hockey.
Harvard has only recently come to rally around basketball. When I was there in the 80's I attended far more hockey games.
For most of the Ivy League today, I can't fathom that a single sport would be segregated out for 'special' treatment, especially when there are students not on campus. That is why I couldn't conceive of a basketball only bubble even being considered, feasibility be damned.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-30-20 06:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 07:37 PM - Post#317498
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Who cares about the fans? Harvard has spent MILLIONS on basketball in the last 10 years, from Amaker's package which is more than twice what any other Ivy coach makes, the improvements to their arena (albeit they should have gotten far more for their money) and the willingness to lower the bar for their basketball team in terms of academics. We all know that Harvard has no fans. But their boosters and administration contribute the big bucks, yet they ran away from a solution that would get exposure and possibly admiration
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 07:40 PM - Post#317499
In response to palestra38
That’d be a great New York Post article.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 09:03 PM - Post#317500
In response to mrjames
In pictorial form only.
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bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 10:23 PM - Post#317501
In response to palestra38
In fairness, Boston/Massachusetts, has experienced significant challenges with COVID which would make Harvard very cautious, perhaps more cautious than the majority of IL universities. But, there is a element of politics that probably comes into play with Harvard and other IL schools based on their culture.
I would not have been surprised if Harvard and perhaps one other IL school would have taken a pass if 6 other schools were willing to give it try but it is understandable that you need to have all teams in a conference participate or not.
It appears that cancellations due to COVID has slowed down over the past few days but who knows for sure where this is going but the IL could have certainly given it the old college try. They could have shut it down if need be.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
11-30-20 11:37 PM - Post#317502
In response to bradley
Any sane and rational individual who has been following the data and trends since March knows exactly where this is headed.
December and January will be our country's worst COVID months, period. We already have more people hospitalized due to COVID than ever before, and the spikes are frightening in too many places around the country. Daily fatalities will be between 2,000 - 3,000. Health care systems across the nation are going to get overwhelmed. Some already are.
We haven't yet hit the spikes due to Thanksgiving or the one to come after Christmas-New Years.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-02-20 09:56 PM - Post#317550
In response to penn nation
What are you waiting for?
I'm seeing <200,000 new cases and almost 3,000 deaths reported today.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
12-02-20 10:39 PM - Post#317551
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
What are you waiting for?
I'm seeing <200,000 new cases and almost 3,000 deaths reported today.
Yes, and this is still partial data due to reporting issues before, during and after Thanksgiving weekend.
What's not partial is 100,000 hospitalized--that number is much less affected by the holiday reporting issues.
The numbers we will see at this point next week will make the current figures look quaint. That will incorporate many of the new cases resulting from exposure around Thanksgiving.
Oh, and a student from my boychicks' grade tested positive for COVID today. So the two of 'em are quarantined for the next little while since they both have a class with the affected student. The entire senior class will now be learning remotely since all but about 9 students have at least 1 class with the affected individual. Those 9 students are not subject to the quarantine, however.
It's getting worse and will continue to deteriorate for the next few months. Spring should show significant improvements for any number of reasons, but that's still a long ways off.
Edited by penn nation on 12-02-20 10:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3059
Reg: 10-20-14
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12-08-20 03:39 PM - Post#317735
In response to palestra38
From Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic
https://mobile.twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status /1...
Larry Scott says the Pac-12 is looking into bubble environments/mini pods for basketball, "but you have to be very very vigorous about it." Said he's not sure it is appropriate to do over a prolonged period of time for "student-athletes."
2:00 PM · Dec 8, 2020·Twitter Web App
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-20 04:03 PM - Post#317741
In response to rbg
I would agree IF the students were attending class. But they are not. What difference does it make if you take virtual class from Cornell for 6 weeks or from home?
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4000
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-08-20 05:16 PM - Post#317758
In response to palestra38
What are you going to do for timers, referees, etc.? Are they going to stay in the bubble? Given the current rise in cases, I find it hard to believe that college and/or Pro competition can make it through December
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-20 05:22 PM - Post#317760
In response to Old Bear
Simple answer--yes. Offer a little more money and they won't risk their health, unlike every other game.
This REALLY wasn't going to be rocket science. It just comes down to the fact that they wanted to spin the fantasy that the players are like all other students and it wouldn't be fair to the athletes in other sports who wouldn't get to take part. We could have done this easily.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4000
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-08-20 06:47 PM - Post#317771
In response to palestra38
Any time spent in Ithaca in the winter is more than too much.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-08-20 06:50 PM - Post#317772
In response to palestra38
I am watching Wagner playing Seton Hall with no sighting of Bryce which is unfortunate.
Obviously, a lot of games are being played with a fair number of cancellations but college BB is moving forward. Maybe, it all changes in the coming weeks but we will see. It also appears that the vaccine is right around the corner although doubtful that college BB players will receive it until March.
IL remains the odd ball but time will tell if they got it right or wrong.
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