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Username Post: 2020-21 Regular Season is dead, long live 2021-22        (Topic#25160)
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 28003

Reg: 11-21-04
05-08-21 07:55 AM - Post#323993    
    In response to SomeGuy

Absolutely---starting point guard on a team that won the Big Ten, got a 1 seed and then edged out in the Elite 8, played over 30 minutes a game and averaged 9 points a game while shooting 42% from 3.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3172

Reg: 02-15-15
05-08-21 09:25 PM - Post#323996    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Lesmond is 6-6

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2291

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-09-21 08:02 AM - Post#323999    
    In response to PennFan10

The legend is growing!

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 2791

Reg: 10-20-14
05-10-21 12:45 PM - Post#324016    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

https://hoopdirt.com/daily-dirt-5-10-21/

- A bunch of assistants on the move in the Ivy league. Will roll with some of these moves shortly, but can confirm that one Ivy assistant will wind up at Howard. -

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1614

Age: 72
Reg: 01-15-16
05-19-21 10:51 AM - Post#324131    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
There is next to zero chance the Ivy rep will be a 16 seed unless there are some Ivy tourney upsets.



ESPN now has Yale as the #15 seed in the West Regional against Ohio State. At least, it is not #16 seed.

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 2791

Reg: 10-20-14
2020-21 Regular Season is dead, long live 2021-22
05-26-21 08:57 PM - Post#324198    
    In response to bradley

Interesting thought for next year & beyond.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1 397219530...

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein

Sources: Multiple mid-major programs are opting to not play guarantee games against high-major programs because it gives power conference teams a "free live evaluation" of future players who could move up via the transfer portal.

The level of separation has NEVER been greater.

11:54 AM · May 25, 2021·TweetDeck

Edited by rbg on 05-26-21 08:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
welcometothejungle 
Masters Student
Posts: 694

Age: 24
Reg: 07-31-19
05-26-21 10:18 PM - Post#324199    
    In response to rbg

I really doubt that this is a widespread thing. I can't see mid and low major athletic departments turning down the money they get from guarantee games for the off chance that a power conference team will fall in love with one of their players that they can already get on film whenever they want. Every NCAA game from D1 to D3 is on Synergy clipped and tagged for every coach in the country to watch within 48 hours of the game ending.

Michigan didn't need to play Columbia or Coastal Carolina live to know they wanted Mike Smith or Devante Jones. Refusing to play power conference teams will only make mid/low major players want to seek greener pastures faster where they can play in front of big crowds.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
05-27-21 07:40 AM - Post#324201    
    In response to welcometothejungle

And this may change (and quickly), but thus far I think the Ivy has been kind of proud that guys like Smith can go play on a bigger stage. Not saying the league recruits by expressly saying “come get an Ivy degree and then play a year at a high major while going to grad school for free,” but you can see how the dynamic might help the league get better players (but only for 3 years instead of 4).


 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1614

Age: 72
Reg: 01-15-16
05-27-21 07:18 PM - Post#324250    
    In response to SomeGuy

In fairness, the best IL players that have transferred to major programs have enjoyed modest success. Watching these players perform at big time programs suggest that IL BB has a long way to go. Hopefully,

Atkinson has a bust out season as he should receive significant playing time based on the Notre Dame roster.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
05-27-21 09:39 PM - Post#324256    
    In response to bradley

I think maybe our expectations are different. The league’s transfers included a starting point guard on a one seed, a starter on a 2 seed, plus a significant contributor on whatever Ohio State was (they lost so fast I don’t remember).

I guess if you want our best players to go score 20 ppg, their success is modest. But Smith and Bruner succeeded because they figured out how to do exactly what their teams needed. For Bruner, it wasn’t all that different from what he did at Yale. But Smith changed his game significantly and found a way to fit perfectly. I think that is great.

And to me, Smith indicates that the gulf isn’t as big as you might think. This is a guy who literally won one game as a senior at Columbia. And a year later he’s the starting point guard on a Big Ten team a game away from the Final Four. If the difference was that vast, Smith would have been able to lift Columbia more. He couldn’t because our league is good enough that even an elite player can’t just win on his own.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3818

Reg: 11-23-04
05-29-21 10:25 AM - Post#324294    
    In response to SomeGuy

With T Choh back, I would be interested in Mike James view on how things stack up for the coming season.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
05-29-21 06:17 PM - Post#324297    
    In response to Old Bear

I know my opinion isn’t the one you’re looking for, but . . . I have to think Brown becomes more of a favorite for the top 4 now. With Choh back, they will bring back more than half their minutes. And now, instead of having question marks all over the place, I feel pretty confident saying Brown will be a good defensive team next year. The offense may still depend upon the new guards, but potentially this could be a top 4 team even if, like in ‘19-‘20, they don’t totally figure out the offense thing.

I also think Choh’s return gives them choices they might not otherwise have. If they don’t find backcourt offense among the newcomers (or Friday), they could play Gainey and Moses (or the incoming freshman big) together and use Choh in more of a big guard role. So who develops doesn’t matter quite as much, because they have a versatile, experienced anchor player.

And to quantify what this means in terms of returning experience, Brown literally goes from basically having the fourth most returning minutes (and far closer to last place than second place) all the way up to second (and far closer to first than fourth place). Basically, before this news, in return minutes it was Princeton and Yale, and then everybody else. Now, it is Princeton, Brown, and Yale, and then everybody else.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 28003

Reg: 11-21-04
05-30-21 08:07 AM - Post#324300    
    In response to SomeGuy

I don't know how much that stat will really matter after 2 years, but we will certainly see.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
05-30-21 09:19 AM - Post#324304    
    In response to palestra38

Well, I hope you are right. I think returning minutes usually mean a lot. OOC I fear it will matter more. Even Yale and Brown likely will be on the low end nationally in terms of returning minutes. And the other five teams are going to have numbers so low that it usually means you aren’t going to be very good unless you get a huge influx of talent. I presume that the other five could be the five teams with the fewest returning minutes in the country, though some of that will depend on how many seniors elsewhere stick around for their extra year.

But in conference it might not matter. We’re all in more or less the same inexperienced boat.

 
Naismith 
Sophomore
Posts: 110

Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
05-30-21 10:44 AM - Post#324305    
    In response to palestra38

Harvard certainly lost a lot of minutes in the last 2 years; However, if the 247 Sports recruiting data is accurate, Tommy Amaker will be greeting 11 3-star and 2 4-star players spread out over four classes. Yikes!

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2291

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
2020-21 Regular Season is dead, long live 2021-22
05-30-21 03:29 PM - Post#324310    
    In response to Naismith

Harvard's limited returning minutes may be misleading.

First, guys like Kirkwood and Ledlum are so multi-talented that their returning minutes are very important.
Second, the large and talented senior class of 2019 caused a backlog of talent. Harvard's depth showed through when it trounced Yale without starters Juzang and Kirkwood (as well as Towns and Aiken)
Third, looking over the roster, guys like Catchings, Sakota, Forbes and Tretout all have started I believe.

Add that experience to the two new classes and it will take a bit of time, but Tommy will have it sorted out when it needs to be.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 05-30-21 03:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: 2020-21 Regular Season is dead, long live 2021-22
05-31-21 11:20 AM - Post#324312    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yes, Harvard and Penn both have situations where the returnee minute numbers could be misleading and/or overcome. Both could put together a good rotation of players who have started before and/or played extensive minutes. And of course the “huge influx of talent” exception may apply to Harvard in particular.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2291

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-31-21 11:41 AM - Post#324313    
    In response to SomeGuy

Yes, I see from the Penn portion of this blog that Penn has key pieces and depth as well.

Brown fields a impressive roster and Princeton has Lewellyn and other key pieces as well. Columbia seems to have recruited very well also.

Yale returns a slew of talent that appears to have taken the year off to be able to do so.

Not much noise out of Cornell or Dartmouth, unless I'm missing something.

I assume Yale is the favorite with 5 others vying for Lavietes in March (for the third consecutive year)!

I'll just be glad to be back!

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3172

Reg: 02-15-15
05-31-21 02:09 PM - Post#324315    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Returning minutes are pretty meaningless if a team has the most talent. Harvard is the #1 team in the league and the rest are battling for #2. I think it's closer than many may think for 2-5 with Brown, Penn, Princeton and Yale. But to me there is clear separation at the top for this year.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 5556

Reg: 11-22-04
05-31-21 04:26 PM - Post#324316    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I think we’re still waiting to hear what Rai does in terms of transfer. He’s not Choh, but he’s a pretty darn good returnee if he comes back for another year at Dartmouth.

 
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