UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1211
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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09-02-21 10:31 PM - Post#326502
This will be a fascinating season in two respects
First, we are now well into the Donahue recruiting process. This we know: He has not upped Penn's game into the Harvard realm. He has gotten no more 3-star or more recruits than traditional Ivy programs, including Franny's.
This we hope: Among the nineteen players on the roster there are three players that will rise to stardom and five of six more that prove to be solid Ivy talents. It looked like Donahue had achieved that before all the injuries. The jury is still out.
The second issue is how quickly Steve sifts through the current hoard of players. By my count there are eight returnees who have shown talent: Charles, Dingle, Lorca-Lloyd, Williams, Martz, Washington, Wang, Monroe.
Then there are nine newcomers: Chambers, Spinosa, Laczkowski, McMullen, Holland, Smith, Slajchert, Larson, Moshkovitz. Since we can safely assume that the staff saw potential in each of these recruits, one expects some significant contribution from this group by the beginning of the Ivy season.
Finally, we have two incumbents, Ryan and Imegwu who have shown only modest potential to date.
The three lists total nineteen players. More than anything else Steve and the staff will be challenged to make sense of this group in order to identify the eight or nine that would make up an effective team on the floor. That is something that Franny did well. Miller was off to a good start pre-injury bug. Then several years during the Allen regime the team seemed to have workable depth only to come up short once the ball started bouncing.
Steve did this well until halfway through the first Wang year. As optimists, this talent collection looks tantalizingly deep. But that is distinct from developing the chemistry that will produce a victory in the first Princeton game for a change.
There are three scenarios to watch for in the pre-Ivy schedule. The first is the immergence of the kind of superior talent (Maloney, Allen, Pierce) that take the team quickly to a new level. We thought that might be the case two years ago. The second is the kind of confusion that such a numbers game suggests. The staff is still searching for the right mix in late January. The third is perhaps the most likely: Very inconsistent results early as the staff tries different combinations - then steady improvement as the best seven to ten players emerge.
This process should give us much to talk about as the reports about Gus Larson already show. There are plenty of prospects to keep our interest. My sleeper is Moshkovitz.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3821
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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2021-2022 Numbers Game
09-03-21 10:52 AM - Post#326511
In response to UPIA1968
While I'd love to see scenario #1, I'd be perfectly happy with #3, particularly given the unique circumstances (not having played for more than a year). However, depending on how this season goes, I'm not sure I'll be satisfied with #3 next year.
There really does seem to be a good amount of talent there. If the coaches can't put together a team that can win at least 8 Ivy games, it will be fair to ask what the fork is going on.
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2089
Reg: 11-29-04
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09-03-21 01:33 PM - Post#326517
In response to Silver Maple
I agree that there is a lot of talent, but it's telling that we don't know who can have a consistent edge to lead the team and league. Dingle has shown us the most to date, but certainly not enough for us to have conviction that he will be dominant. Williams and Charles were the players that are unknown but could have that capability. The rest of your group one has shown solid supporting capability but no signs of consistent dominance.
I'm intrigued by Larson, Slajchert, Holland, and Moshkovitz among the newcomers.
I don't know who this year's #1 leader will be (like Brodeur and Rosen of the past) and I can't even be sure who will show solid #2 level play (like Betley). Maybe someone will rise up the way Foreman did.
I completely trust Donahue to keep us competitive and do a lot with the players we have. I just can't see us reliably sweeping weekends without 2 transcendent players emerging.
Fingers crossed for a full and solid season for Williams. He deserves it.
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 282
Reg: 11-23-04
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09-03-21 03:18 PM - Post#326519
In response to Penndemonium
My following statement is CLEARLY biased and comes with the full admission I’ve never seen 90% of the current Penn roster play but Jordan is primed for a monster season. He has the ability to get to the rim and has worked on his shot in case he’s used off ball. He had several overtures to leave for “bigger†pastures but was loyal to Penn. The other player I. Watch out for us Ludlum. Hope this finds everyone safe and healthy
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2089
Reg: 11-29-04
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09-03-21 03:36 PM - Post#326522
In response to nychoops
To be clear, I like Dingle and his game a lot. I haven't seen him since his Freshman year, so it sounds like you know more about his progress than me. That will be great if he has taken that step up!
My following statement is CLEARLY biased and comes with the full admission I’ve never seen 90% of the current Penn roster play but Jordan is primed for a monster season. He has the ability to get to the rim and has worked on his shot in case he’s used off ball. He had several overtures to leave for “bigger†pastures but was loyal to Penn. The other player I. Watch out for us Ludlum. Hope this finds everyone safe and healthy
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3703
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-03-21 04:02 PM - Post#326523
In response to Penndemonium
I would be shocked if Jordan Dingle doesn't star for Penn and lead in scoring.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3637
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-03-21 07:40 PM - Post#326529
In response to Mike Porter
Slajchert is going to be one of the leading scorers this season. He is a Betley type.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 706
Age: 67
Reg: 02-18-18
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09-03-21 11:16 PM - Post#326531
In response to PennFan10
I like what I am reading here in the last few posts.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3821
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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09-04-21 12:29 PM - Post#326533
In response to OldBig5
I admire all the optimism on this board, and think it is probably (at least somewhat) justified. However, for the sake of my own mental health, I'm just not letting myself go there.
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Catskill
Freshman
Posts: 9
Age: 75
Reg: 03-13-18
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09-04-21 02:13 PM - Post#326534
In response to Penndemonium
I dream the talent rises to the highest level, increasing the level of competition for minutes and at practice. My guess is that (if history is any guide) a few players will be injured at any given time and a few players will not raise their game. This will make sorting the rotation a lot less difficult than it appears.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3703
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-07-21 02:40 PM - Post#326547
In response to PennFan10
Slajchert is going to be one of the leading scorers this season. He is a Betley type.
Great to hear that PF10. I was always high on Slajchert because he was a HUGE scorer here in CA and an efficient one as well. Here's to hoping because we do have a void of efficient scoring to fill.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3637
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-07-21 02:48 PM - Post#326548
In response to Mike Porter
I'm also hearing good things about Michael Wang and Bryce Washington. Both should be 100% and are looking good.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6592
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-07-21 05:02 PM - Post#326550
In response to PennFan10
Well, that’s a big step one toward my predicted starting lineup. But more importantly, it’s a big step one toward a deep team and a good season. Great to hear.
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2089
Reg: 11-29-04
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09-07-21 05:15 PM - Post#326551
In response to SomeGuy
As I mentioned, I am loving the look of Jonah Charles, but it may be awkward that he doesn't enable Dingle to play off the ball. Maybe if you add Slajchert and/or Williams, you get a great team of combo skilled guards for small ball.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3821
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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09-07-21 10:17 PM - Post#326553
In response to Penndemonium
As I mentioned, I am loving the look of Jonah Charles, but it may be awkward that he doesn't enable Dingle to play off the ball. Maybe if you add Slajchert and/or Williams, you get a great team of combo skilled guards for small ball.
If there really is this much talent, the coaches are going to have to make some decisions. Not everybody is going to be able to play. On the other hand, there will almost certainly be injuries, in which case all this apparent depth should be useful. We'll see.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6592
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-07-21 11:29 PM - Post#326554
In response to Penndemonium
Yes, I guess a question is whether Charles and Bryce basically play the same position for Penn (the 3). Need two guards who can handle. Thought Bryce struggled at guard as a soph, though the sample was small and he was playing hurt. Was better as a clear 3 as a freshman. So if Charles is a pure shooter, the combo/points need to be some combination of Dingle, Monroe, Slajchert, and Williams (or a freshman?). Monroe needs to cut the turnovers.
Will be interesting. Donahue managed to repurpose Silpe and Caleb Wood, so we shouldn’t just pigeonhole any of these guys. Could be Bryce or Charles does fine as a combo with Dingle, or some other wrinkle.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5752
Age: 61
Reg: 07-07-09
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09-08-21 07:29 AM - Post#326555
In response to Silver Maple
As I mentioned, I am loving the look of Jonah Charles, but it may be awkward that he doesn't enable Dingle to play off the ball. Maybe if you add Slajchert and/or Williams, you get a great team of combo skilled guards for small ball.
If there really is this much talent, the coaches are going to have to make some decisions. Not everybody is going to be able to play. On the other hand, there will almost certainly be injuries, in which case all this apparent depth should be useful. We'll see.
Every year before the season there are posts about how much depth the team has. By the first couple of Ivy games we're left wondering whether we have enough players to cover 200 minutes. Donahue has been better at cultivating depth than any Penn coach since Weinhauer, but I'll still only believe Penn has depth when I see it.
It has been so long since the team has played a competitive game that it's hard to predict how the season will play out.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9979
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-08-21 11:09 AM - Post#326556
In response to SomeGuy
So if Charles is a pure shooter, the combo/points need to be some combination of Dingle, Monroe, Slajchert, and Williams (or a freshman?). Monroe needs to cut the turnovers.
I have to think Jelani will see the most time at the point, and Slajchert will see some if he turns out to be all that. I'm not crazy about Dingle bringing the ball up unless they are facing a team that can't stop him off the dribble and he can dish at will. SD will have lots of options which gives him the luxury of optimizing matchups, including on defense, and being less vulnerable to foul issues.
We are stacked 1-3. Talk to me about where the 4-5 minutes will go.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3637
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-08-21 11:43 AM - Post#326558
In response to Streamers
I think this team will have plenty of offense, I wonder where the defense will come. MLL is likely going to be a staple in the middle as a rim protector 5 with Wang at the 4. Martz will also see plenty of time at the 4 with Wang moving to the 5 (yikes on defense). Key is keeping MLL out of foul trouble which requires guards that can stay in front of people. Not sure we have that.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9979
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-08-21 03:04 PM - Post#326559
In response to PennFan10
Agreed. I would only add that, assuming Wang is 100% and Larson's video is not a mirage (neither being a given), there will be 3 options at the 4 that will force the defense away from the hoop giving MLL room underneath. Rebounding should be OK as our guards/wings will also do their part. I'm also looking forward to seeing our bigs run the floor as it appears they are all willing and able to do so.
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