palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-16-21 08:41 PM - Post#327201
Posting this clearly, so Jeff won't read it accidentally and rue the lost time remaining in his life.
Penn needs to clean house in the football program--good opportunity for the new AD to make a mark. This reminds me of the closing days of the Harry Gamble era.
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QHoops
Senior
Posts: 369
Reg: 12-16-04
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Re: Penn Football
10-16-21 11:05 PM - Post#327202
In response to palestra38
Gamble, Harry, Gamble.
(It's been a while since I've thought of that)
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Penn Football
10-17-21 06:59 AM - Post#327203
In response to QHoops
Ray Priore's tenure was the last "gift" of the brutal Steve Bilsky. For those who forget, here's how he denied the incoming AD after him the right to choose her own football coach as he planned his departure.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2014/04/wenik -penn-f...
So Bilsky gave us Jerome and Priore, and two basket case signature athletic programs as he took his buyout and walked away. The gift that keeps on giving
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Penn Football
10-17-21 08:32 AM - Post#327206
In response to palestra38
It's too bad. Priore seems like a good guy. But he clearly isn't getting the job done. He has to go.
The remarkable thing is that what happened to the football and men's basketball programs doesn't just seem to be the result of garden-variety incompetence or laziness. I think it would be fair to call this genuine malfeasance. If that's the case, I don't think we should only be pointing the finger at Steve Bilsky. The President of the university must answer for this as well. This all occurred on her watch, and she let it happen. It would also probably be fair to ask where the board of trustees was during all this.
One last thing: I wish Steve Bilsky hadn't been so amazingly good at fundraising and building top-notch facilities. That would make it much easier to pronounce his AD tenure a complete failure.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Penn Football
10-17-21 09:10 AM - Post#327207
In response to palestra38
What you may be missing here is that simply losing games is not enough to get a Penn Athletics coach removed. For that, the situation has to become undeniably embarrassing or scandalous in some way. Think about it, when was the last time Penn ousted a coach just for a losing record? Maybe the New AD has higher standards.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Penn Football
10-17-21 11:24 AM - Post#327211
In response to Streamers
Well, that's really only true in basketball---Penn football coaches have definitely been fired for losing--Gamble and Steele being the last two.
And the basketball coaches who have been fired had terrible records (Schneider, Miller and Allen) and all were fired primarily for bad records--Miller was 0-7 and the team was in shambles, Allen's problems weren't even known and Schneider's problems weren't public.
So I disagree with your conclusion--we fire coaches for bad performance.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 12:07 PM - Post#327212
In response to palestra38
Football - going all the way back to Gamble and Steele to find an example hardly disproves my point. Basketball: In Allen’s case, things did get all the way to embarrassing. As for Miller, the issues were known behind the scenes. I think my point stands. I looked for a recent example in the other sports and could not find one. Every removal had a specific reason other than record. Maybe someone here knows of a counter-example in since Bilsky left. (When time officially began.)
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 02:32 PM - Post#327215
In response to Streamers
Ray Priore has the support of the people who count. I doubt he’s going anywhere.
I’d look for a few changes next week. Personally - I thought it should have happened after the Dartmouth game. The Columbia effort on offense was as bad as I’ve seen as a Penn fan.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 03:47 PM - Post#327218
In response to AsiaSunset
I believe you ---I think that's how he got the job in the first place and after winning with Bagnoli's recruits, it gave him a lot of time. But we've gotten worse---especially when it comes to size and speed. You compare our teams just by comparable size against other Ivy teams in the Bagnoli era and now, and you can see why we aren't winning.
Do YOU think Priore is doing a good job?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 04:09 PM - Post#327219
In response to palestra38
I think they got the qb wrong. Quinnelly is a great story and seems like a fantastic young man, but …. They probably should have tried one of the young guys.
I disagree with you about size etc. You can’t put that much weight on the roster listing because they do a spotty job in updating every year, but the OL is pretty similar to other Ivies as is the DL. I actually think the defense is pretty good. We just need much better QB. All the young guys are 3*** star recruits. They just preferred Quinnelly coming out of camp. It clearly hasn’t worked out. Saturday was depressing- embarrassing.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 04:23 PM - Post#327220
In response to AsiaSunset
Well. I'm going to the Yale Bowl next Saturday (daughter in med school in NH) to do the tailgate and game thing.
I hope the game isn't embarrassing....but am not optimistic.
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Bill Lewis
Senior
Posts: 304
Reg: 12-23-04
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10-17-21 05:12 PM - Post#327221
In response to AsiaSunset
Does anyone know if Bagnoli departed because he elected to do so or because he was forced out? His W/(L) for the last five years was:
Overall/Conference
2010 9-1 / 7-0
2011 5-5 / 4-3
2012 6-4 / 6-1
2013 4-6 / 3-4
2014 2-8 / 2-5
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 05:44 PM - Post#327222
In response to Bill Lewis
I know it wasn’t a spur of the moment thing and had been in the works for awhile.
George Weiss has a very close relationship with Ray Priore as do several others who help drive these kind of things. They felt it was time to go in another direction.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-17-21 07:11 PM - Post#327223
In response to AsiaSunset
Mount Rushmore of Bad Penn Football Coaches:
Steele
Gamble
Priore
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 07:22 PM - Post#327224
In response to Penn90
Mount Rushmore of good Penn Football coaches (modern era):
Berndt
Bagnoli
Zubrow
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-17-21 09:38 PM - Post#327225
In response to palestra38
It was a bad offensive performance yesterday. I think the announcers said that at the end of the game Quinelly was 6 for 25 in passing or something like that. It might be the worst passing performance I've ever seen by Penn. In fairness, though, it seemed like the receivers dropped some catchable balls.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-18-21 08:07 AM - Post#327226
In response to Penn90
Mount Rushmore of Bad Penn Football Coaches:
Steele
Gamble
Priore
Steele - 3 seasons, 9-21, 0 Ivy titles
Gamble - 10 seasons, 34-55-2, 0 Ivy titles
Priore - 5 full seasons, 31-19, *2 Ivy titles
*Missed sharing a third Ivy title by a 24-19 loss to Yale, a game Penn led midway through the fourth quarter
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-18-21 08:18 AM - Post#327227
In response to Penn7277
We saw one of the young QBs lined up in a wishbone on several series Saturday in NYC. It was a nice change of pace and it worked to a point. The defense made some adjustments and it became less effective as they never threw out of it. At least they are experimenting with some new wrinkles and we may see more of this this week.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-18-21 08:47 AM - Post#327228
In response to 13otto
All his winning came with Bagnoli's recruits. Bagnoli was on the verge of another dynasty when he was forced out. Compare what Berndt did inheriting a winless team and turning it around for 5 straight titles. You have to win with your own recruits before you can be truly judged. In your analysis. Glen Miller was the best Penn Coach after Dunphy because he won a title with the best team we have had after Dunphy.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-18-21 05:14 PM - Post#327249
In response to palestra38
Bagnoli was on the verge of another dynasty when he was forced out.
That obviously is your opinion, and quite a stretch at that, as Al Bagnoli's last two Penn teams went 4-6 (3-4 Ivy) in 2013 and 2-8 (2-5 Ivy) in 2014. Penn was picked to finish 6th in the 2015 preseason poll, Ray Priore's first season as HC. That's nothing like what Glen Miller inherited.
You have to win with your own recruits before you can be truly judged.
Wow, you put Ed Zubrow on a pedestal for doing what Ray Priore did - winning two Ivy titles in his first three years with a 16-5 Ivy mark - with his predecessor's recruits.
Don't get me wrong, I thought Ed Zubrow and Al Bagnoli were great head coaches here, and I'm not saying that Ray Priore is in their class. I simply pointed out that you cannot compare Priore to, or lump him into the same category with, Gary Steele.
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