Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-17-21 06:47 PM - Post#328772
In response to The Agenda
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. The senior year for MJ/Langel may have been our most complete team. Every one of the starters became All-Ivy and were playing at or near All-Ivy level in the same year. Each probably would have started for any team in the league. Our players now may look like better athletes and may meet the eye test, but the only player who is clear all-ivy material in a much stronger league is Dingle.
I think this team will make it a fun season to watch. I am proud of all of these players for everything they have done. They have a chance to win, but they'll need a few players to take a next step forward in their development to do so. If the Ivy season started today, I would not predict them to win a championship.
Looking forward to what's ahead!
We'll see how insulting it is by the end of the year. I think it's not going to be insulting at all. I already said that the '95 team was better. But I think this team will be better than the Jordan-Langel team --we'll see about the others.
If we even come close to that level, I will come back and apologize. I know today's Ivy is much better than it was in 2000, but those MJ/Langel teams went 27-1 in the league in their final two seasons, and then we morphed into a top-50 KenPom team that went 4-0 in the Big 5 in 2002 as Ugonna/Koko matured and Toole arrived.
I don't see this group coming anywhere near that level of performance -- even the lesser MJ/Langel level. If they do, I'll be beyond thrilled.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-17-21 07:31 PM - Post#328773
In response to andybech
Nice article. Thanks for posting
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-17-21 08:43 PM - Post#328792
In response to Streamers
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story...
Lead story on college basketball page on ESPN.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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11-17-21 10:18 PM - Post#328823
In response to SomeGuy
Wow, that's some story. Hope the kid stays healthy.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1116
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-17-21 10:44 PM - Post#328828
In response to palestra38
I am not suggesting that Penn can't win games. I am simply suggesting that it is easy to see what to emphasize when playing them. As to the team's shot selection: It ranks 46th is threes % of scoring and 285 in twos percentage. Pretty obvious what to concentrate on if you are their opponent.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-17-21 10:57 PM - Post#328829
In response to UPIA1968
Seriously, you have to watch a few games instead of just looking at the box scores after 4 games.
BTW, Mason beat Md at Md tonight. So we lost to 2 top 20 teams on the road. If we play another top 20 team on the road, perhaps they will know what to do, but your points are rather ridiculous---Penn has the ability to score from the paint better than any recent Penn team
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-17-21 10:59 PM - Post#328832
In response to palestra38
Two top 20 teams?!!! Where do you get this sh!!!
GMU is currently 154. They beat the 26th best team so they will move up but top 20?! It’s not the transitive property of basketball games, they don’t assume the 26th rank
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-17-21 11:03 PM - Post#328833
In response to palestra38
Finishing appears to be somewhat of a problem.
However, we also seem to have a robust collection of players who can drain it from long range.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-17-21 11:27 PM - Post#328836
In response to palestra38
Penn has the ability to score from the paint better than any recent Penn team
Yes, if we are limiting recent to this year and 20-21.
Didn't we have a POY center with a close to unstoppable inside game before that?
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1116
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-17-21 11:30 PM - Post#328837
In response to UPIA1968
Food for thought when predicting great things for this team. The starting lineup so far boasts one year of college experience, Dingle. The second five have five years - only if you give Wang credit for two years. If this team has the skill we hope those numbers suggest success a ways out.
It could be possible this year if the team has the talent and coaching of the early Allen/Maloney teams. But when that team started its run it had six years of experience among the starters and played only one freshman, Krug. Oh yea both of that team's guards played in the pros.
But perhaps that is the right comparison. The year before the Allen era started with a 16-10 overall record and 9-5 in the league, albeit a much easier league. That team finished second in the league. Could this bunch finish the necessary fourth? If it does, the program should be headed for a good stretch.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-18-21 12:33 AM - Post#328839
In response to TheLine
Yes — I think this is actually the worst we’ve been at scoring in the paint in quite some time, at least so far. We have no post presence compared to AJ — we don’t even have a Rothschild or DNH. That is mitigated some by Dingle’s ability to get in there, but we’ve had guards who can penetrate every year, too.
Luckily, while this team is more dependent on three point shooting than prior versions, it also appears to be the best shooting team Steve has had from outside.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23193
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-21 07:32 AM - Post#328849
In response to Jeff2sf
Jon. FSU is not a top 20 team. Florida destroyed them.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-21 08:25 AM - Post#328850
In response to 10Q
Jon. FSU is not a top 20 team. Florida destroyed them.
To be fair, I think both those teams are projected to be very good, and FSU had won 7 straight in this in-state rivalry series (Florida’s last win was under Donovan in 2014), so a course-correcting road loss may not mean very much in the end.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23193
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-21 08:59 AM - Post#328856
In response to Chip Bayers
Florida was not in the top 25 pre-season.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-21 09:38 AM - Post#328863
In response to 10Q
Kenpom had FSU & Florida back-to-back at 24 & 25 in his preseason ratings.
A road loss by any top 25 or top 50 team to another top 25 or 50 team, even by double-digits, is not unusual and doesn’t necessarily tell you what the long term results for either of them will be over the several months of the season.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23193
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-21 09:43 AM - Post#328867
In response to Chip Bayers
True, but a double-digit loss to a team that hasn't beaten you in almost a decade suggests that your team is not great.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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vs Lafayette 11-18-21 09:49 AM - Post#328869
In response to 10Q
True, but a double-digit loss to a team that hasn't beaten you in almost a decade suggests that your team is not great.
No, actually, it doesn’t. Teams of this quality that lose by that much on the road to a team of similar high quality have better than even odds of winning a re-match. There’s reams of data on this.
What’s highly unusual is what FSU managed to do in that streak, given that Florida had a lot of really good teams in those years.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 11-18-21 09:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: vs Lafayette 11-18-21 09:57 AM - Post#328871
In response to SomeGuy
Random thoughts:
- When your best 3 point defense is to let them shoot it as was the case against Lafayette, you have a problem.
- They are shooting less than 45% from 2 point range (41+ from 3.) They are having trouble finishing and Slajchert’s lane floaters will not work against good teams.
- Life has been good on the Spinoso bandwagon, I know I sound like P38 touting Gaines on this one, but watching him work the high post reminds me a little of frosh vintage AJ. There, I said it.
- Having Martz back with Spinoso forces defenses to come out and let MLL work underneath and makes Penn less dependent on Wang.
- When you have Bryce near the end of the bench, you have a lot of insurance against backcourt injuries and slumps.
- Having this kind of depth and versatility makes all kinds of in-game adjustments and full time pressure defense possible. This will win Ivy games.
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