Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-19-21 03:25 PM - Post#329245
In response to nychoops
No, I'm not saying that nyc.
I'm saying that
1. Jordan is definitely the best player on this team 2. he is currently playing as if he is the best option to take most of the shots.
3. He is not doing that great relative to other teams' best players in taking those shots.
4. This could be because he's playing out of control and taking 4-5 shots per game that he should not. If he just deleted those from his profile, he'd still take the same amount of shots he'd just be more efficient. These are basically no hoper type shots that don't work. Long twos, off balance drives in the lane, or floaters that have no chance.
5. The "problem: is that he and Steve Donahue may have concluded that if he doesn't take those shots, someone else will have to and that person will be even worse than Jordan.
So, what we know for sure is that if things go on EXACTLY LIKE THEY HAVE FOR THE LAST FIVE GAMES, we will finish 4th in the ivies. But there are three hopes for salvation:
1. he gets better at taking these no hopers. He takes a leap from being Brad Beal to being Steph Curry.
2. his teammates get better and can take these shots off of his burden.
3. he's been going rogue, steve didn't give him this permission, wants him to pass and he finally does.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32813
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-19-21 03:45 PM - Post#329255
In response to Penndemonium
All 1 year? This is only his second year of play, and he took a semester off. He will have 2 years of eligibility here---let's not drive him off.
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 242
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-19-21 04:14 PM - Post#329286
In response to palestra38
I appreciate everyone’s passion and perspective, all of which makes this board so enjoyable for me. Not sure anybody is right or wrong… let’s hope for a healthy and competitive season. A final note.. basketball aside, Jordan is a great great kid( not that anybody has questioned that) who is passionate about winning and his teammates. No matter which side of the fence your in this “debate” Jordan and Penn is lucky to have a loyal fan base
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-19-21 05:44 PM - Post#329322
In response to nychoops
Davidson game showed the same pattern. With the exception of Williams, no one else want's to go to the hole. So Jordan is it.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-19-21 07:16 PM - Post#329329
In response to UPIA1968
BTW Jeff2sf, I subscribe to the idea that a few higher quality possessions a game would help a lot, but I haven't seen Dingle being reckless and selfish this year. His Freshman year, his outside shot wasn't as sharp and he couldn't dish off of his drives. This year, his long threes seem like a decent shot, he passes off his drives, and he's sometimes turned the ball over or gotten stuffed at the rim. I'm perfectly fine with that, especially given the other options we have.
The other player who did this was Foreman. It shows a willingness to step up and lead the team. Right now, Dingle is doing it with medium efficiency. If he can take over games, we will need that. Remember that Foreman was worse in all the ways you described the first half of his senior year. Those same faults became strengths when he suddenly started making his difficult shots and willing the team to wins.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-20-21 10:09 AM - Post#329341
In response to Penndemonium
The problems Hicks never addressed were that he always turned it over a lot more than Dingle, and he couldn’t hit a high enough percentage of 2s. That combination made him an inefficient player.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8238
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-21 12:11 PM - Post#329345
In response to nychoops
I appreciate everyone’s passion and perspective, all of which makes this board so enjoyable for me. Not sure anybody is right or wrong… let’s hope for a healthy and competitive season. A final note.. basketball aside, Jordan is a great great kid( not that anybody has questioned that) who is passionate about winning and his teammates. No matter which side of the fence your in this “debate” Jordan and Penn is lucky to have a loyal fan base
I hope nothing said here makes you think we disagree. Speaking for myself, I think we are more than fortunate Jordan not only came to Penn, but went out of his way to delay any trip to the transfer portal. I just hope his ability to draw the double teams can be exploited.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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A sit-down with Jordan Dingle
11-20-21 06:36 PM - Post#329350
In response to Streamers
A lot going on IRL at the moment (my wife is about to have our second kiddo!), so I haven’t been able to watch the Davidson game yet or read that thread (will catch up on it). That said, while I sort of understand where this thread is coming from, I equally think it’s kind of ridiculous.
Jordan is a hell of a good player in terms of actual basketball skills, athleticism, and a natural scorer who clearly has put in a TON of work (and took time off just to get more time at Penn). Yes he takes a serious volume of shots, but the reality is that this currently is a feature of this team, not a bug. Yes he is hovering around 100 ORAT but it’s 40% shots. You know what else, he’s improved his passing A LOT. His assist rate of 29% is 150th in the country so far, which is far better than anyone else on the team.
Look also that Clark has a very high usage when he is in… seems coaches have decided they really are the two scorers with other guys mostly as shooters around them or glue guys.
I guess generally what I’m saying is that Jordan Is not the problem. I like the guard rotations but Jordan and Clark are the only kids at this point who can make their own shot against any team that’s better than 300 KP ranked. With Wang’s status unknown, we have almost nothing inside on offense except for Martz who I like (but is really just a big wing). Spinoso looks like he can develop, but a long way to go. Not to pick on him specifically but to use a general trend… I’m sure Mosh is a great kid, but I unfortunately don’t think a team that has to have him as a key rotational big man is going to be as successful as we all want this team to be. I’d also say I find it silly that on the same message board in one thread Mosh is getting praise, but in another thread Dingle is getting criticism? Really?
So let’s do the math, literally looking at 2 years of recruiting classes here and maybe 1 new big who could be a player at some point in the future. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me…
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 242
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: A sit-down with Jordan Dingle
11-20-21 11:42 PM - Post#329392
In response to Mike Porter
Congrats on the upcoming birth…please keep us updated and wishing everyone nothing but the best of health. All way more important than anything basketball related. Feel free to use the name nychoops porter ..works for boy or girl:)
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-21-21 01:42 PM - Post#329412
In response to nychoops
Haha, thanks nychoops! My second baby girl joined us yesterday and very excited! Sorry to say nychoops isn’t her name (that would be Madeleine) but she will be a bball fan if I have anything to do with it, lol. Thank you for your kind words and of course all the great basketball insights shared!
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8238
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-21-21 02:09 PM - Post#329427
In response to Mike Porter
Congratulations!
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-21-21 04:08 PM - Post#329466
In response to Streamers
nychoops has a ring to it.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-21-21 07:37 PM - Post#329493
In response to Penndemonium
Thanks guys!
Nice to see win today though I’ll have to fit in watching second half later. Hopefully this grueling schedule to start pays off. I still really like guards and wings of this team but concerned inside. Spinoso def has fire and potential so good stuff there but man we are thin.
Any word on where Mike Wang is and/or what MLL’s injury is? MLL doesn’t add a ton on offense at this point but does on D so we need him. Nice to see Martz in there, but need to get his usage rate up.
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 242
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-21-21 08:54 PM - Post#329500
In response to Mike Porter
Congratulations son, Madeleine is a beautiful name.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-21-21 09:21 PM - Post#329502
In response to nychoops
Congratulations son, Madeleine is a beautiful name.
It is a beautiful name. It comes from the Arabic word for 'magnificent.' Mazel tov.
Also, now that I'm coming up for air after a brutal business trip, I agree that the team is very fortunate to have Jordan Dingle, and am hopeful (maybe even confident) that he'll get a bit more under control by the time conference play comes around.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-21-21 10:13 PM - Post#329507
In response to Silver Maple
Is she going to be tall? Does she have big hands. Let's get to the important stuff here. Mike has plenty of point guards. We need another Sidney.
Gongratulations!
My son made it to 6'4" and cum laude at Penn, but alas didn't have that great first step.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32813
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-22-21 08:49 AM - Post#329519
In response to Mike Porter
And a belated congratulations from moi as well. Make sure she has that Penn basketball onesie!
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-25-21 03:23 PM - Post#329834
In response to palestra38
I generally agree with the comments on Dingle and his ability to create shots. I would make this observation:
Outside of end of game/half plays, Dingle should really only be trying to create his own shot in transition when we have an advantage (which may be an even numbers advantage but Dingle in space against any opponent is an advantage) or at the end of the shot clock when the play breaks down and we need a bucket.
When we are in the half court, we need to be running our plays, passing and moving without the ball and taking open shots created by that movement. One of Jordan’s weaknesses is the ball will sometimes go to him and never come out during the middle of a half court possession. One of his jobs is to get others involved and know when to be aggressive and when not to be.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-25-21 05:18 PM - Post#329839
In response to PennFan10
Thank you for all the well wishes! Baby Madeleine is doing well and her momma is recovering well. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and hope folks are enjoying it!
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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11-25-21 10:33 PM - Post#329845
In response to Mike Porter
Belated congratulations Mike on Madeleine’s arrival. May she be blessed with a long and healthy life!
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