Bryan
Junior
Posts: 231
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-22-22 09:35 PM - Post#337325
The school you root for wins the Ivy regular season title outright or doesn't win the regular season title but wins the Ivy League tournament.
While I think the Ivy regular season title is a bigger accomplishment, I'd rather have the tournament title. The players all want a chance to play in the NCAA tournament.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32682
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-22-22 09:38 PM - Post#337326
In response to Bryan
Without question, it's the ILT. But you want to win both.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-22-22 09:48 PM - Post#337328
In response to palestra38
For Penn fans who saw Penn-Harvard at the Palestra, there can be but one answer.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-22-22 10:26 PM - Post#337336
In response to Bryan
Great question. As a fan, I would much rather have my team win the IL regular season championship as it is a far greater accomplishment than winning two games on one weekend. It becomes a moot point if one team wins both the regular season and IvyMadness which I hope takes place EVERY YEAR for both the men and women. If Princeton does not win the IL regular season, I hope that another IL that solely won the IL regular season also wins IvyMadness even if it is, God forbid, the Quakers. Why -- they earned it!
If two or three teams tie for IL regular season, one could only hope that the teams meet at IvyMadness Championship game to decide which team gets the NCAA bid that they have earned. Preferably, the game would be played at a neutral court for IvyMadness.
If I was a player, I naturally want to play at least one time at the Big Dance so I prefer winning IvyMadness if I only had one choice. Naturally, it is especially attractive if my team did not win the IL regular crown as you get a second chance. The reality is that it can all go in reverse as a player -- my team wins the IL regular season crown and loses to a #4 or any other seed at IvyMadness. I only think back to the Spencer Weisz/Cook senior team that would have been denied their opportunity to play Duke if not for a missed FT at the Palestra.
Easy solution, but a hard one, win both IL crown and IvyMadness.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-22-22 10:31 PM - Post#337337
In response to bradley
One final thought is that the absolute best solution for a team is to be so good that you receive a NCAA bid even if you do not win IvyMadness.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-23-22 09:58 AM - Post#337350
In response to bradley
Sort of. My understanding is that a large part of the reason the Tournament exists is because a strong Yale club was snubbed by the NIT after losing a playoff game for the ILT to Havard at the Palestra. Thus, instead of an absolute solution, the Tournament merely created a way for the regular season champion to reach the NIT in the event it doesn't win the Tournament.
Enough said.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32682
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-22 10:12 AM - Post#337353
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Harvard blaming Yale for the tournament? Not exactly. Amaker was long a supporter of an Ivy League tournament (and repeatedly stated that it should always be at the Palestra). Let's face it--virtually all the players and coaches wanted a tournament. Just the old guard fans who didn't.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 679
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-23-22 10:20 AM - Post#337358
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I personally preferred the old way (it was a cool idiosyncracy, it guaranteed the Ivy rep would be the best team), but you can't deny the ILT adds interest to the bottom of the table. This crazy H/D/C/B thing we're all following for fourth wouldn't have meant anything in the old days. Plus there's still drama and meaning in the three-way tilt for first.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32682
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-22 10:48 AM - Post#337360
In response to iogyhufi
Clearly, the best thing about the ILT is that it only is for 4 teams--so there still is a cool Ivy idiosyncrasy.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-23-22 10:49 AM - Post#337361
In response to iogyhufi
This also may be a year where the tournament produces a winner with a better post tournament record (after 16 games) than the team that was best after 14. There is a symmetry to the 14 game tournament, but it is still an arbitrary cutoff. More basketball may lead to a better rep in some instances, even presuming the team with the best record is the best team.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-23-22 12:17 PM - Post#337375
In response to palestra38
I distinctly recall fallout from Yale being snubbed by the NIT. That doesn't mean Amaker and others weren't in favor of a tournament, but I understood that to be the trigger/clincher.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 466
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-23-22 01:01 PM - Post#337378
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Definitely the tournament.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-23-22 02:51 PM - Post#337397
In response to SomeGuy
So if we take the logic to the extreme - 4 teams would play 16 games and whoever has the most wins goes to the Big Dance?? It would probably eliminate the 4th seed close to every year. I’d there are 2 teams with the same amount of wins, one more game or tiebreaker?
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 376
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-23-22 04:04 PM - Post#337411
In response to Bryan
Answer: Be like the Princeton WBB team. Focus on the regular season title, and have an impressive enough resume that you are going to get an at-large bid if you lose Ivy Madness.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3634
Reg: 02-06-10
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02-23-22 04:34 PM - Post#337413
In response to Tiger84
March Madness - specifically the first 2 weekends - is my Super Bowl. So that's the brass ring to me.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Which would you rather have? 02-23-22 08:55 PM - Post#337435
In response to Tiger84
To avoid the insanity of IvyMadness, you are absolutely correct as the only way to be fool proof from the foolishness is the very challenging task of getting a NCAAW Tournament bid no matter what happens at IvyMadness -- very challenging task.
Carla's team is a perfect example. If she did not have such a challenging schedule with excellent results, the Tigers would have to beat two teams a third time at Lavietes to get a NCAAW bid. Even though they would have a very good chance to win IvyMadness, your fate would still be determined by one game.
Instead of sending a team that might be a #9 seed that could do a great job in representing the league, the IL would send a #15 or #16 seed if the Tigers got knocked off.
Really brilliant strategy for branding but the problem does go away if the IL could ever become a 2 bid league on a consistent basis -- unlikely.
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