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Username Post: Which would you rather have?        (Topic#26067)
Bryan 
Junior
Posts: 231

Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
02-22-22 09:35 PM - Post#337325    

The school you root for wins the Ivy regular season title outright or doesn't win the regular season title but wins the Ivy League tournament.

While I think the Ivy regular season title is a bigger accomplishment, I'd rather have the tournament title. The players all want a chance to play in the NCAA tournament.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-22-22 09:38 PM - Post#337326    
    In response to Bryan

Without question, it's the ILT. But you want to win both.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21081

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-22-22 09:48 PM - Post#337328    
    In response to palestra38

For Penn fans who saw Penn-Harvard at the Palestra, there can be but one answer.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-22-22 10:26 PM - Post#337336    
    In response to Bryan

Great question. As a fan, I would much rather have my team win the IL regular season championship as it is a far greater accomplishment than winning two games on one weekend. It becomes a moot point if one team wins both the regular season and IvyMadness which I hope takes place EVERY YEAR for both the men and women. If Princeton does not win the IL regular season, I hope that another IL that solely won the IL regular season also wins IvyMadness even if it is, God forbid, the Quakers. Why -- they earned it!

If two or three teams tie for IL regular season, one could only hope that the teams meet at IvyMadness Championship game to decide which team gets the NCAA bid that they have earned. Preferably, the game would be played at a neutral court for IvyMadness.

If I was a player, I naturally want to play at least one time at the Big Dance so I prefer winning IvyMadness if I only had one choice. Naturally, it is especially attractive if my team did not win the IL regular crown as you get a second chance. The reality is that it can all go in reverse as a player -- my team wins the IL regular season crown and loses to a #4 or any other seed at IvyMadness. I only think back to the Spencer Weisz/Cook senior team that would have been denied their opportunity to play Duke if not for a missed FT at the Palestra.

Easy solution, but a hard one, win both IL crown and IvyMadness.







 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-22-22 10:31 PM - Post#337337    
    In response to bradley

One final thought is that the absolute best solution for a team is to be so good that you receive a NCAA bid even if you do not win IvyMadness.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-23-22 09:58 AM - Post#337350    
    In response to bradley

Sort of. My understanding is that a large part of the reason the Tournament exists is because a strong Yale club was snubbed by the NIT after losing a playoff game for the ILT to Havard at the Palestra. Thus, instead of an absolute solution, the Tournament merely created a way for the regular season champion to reach the NIT in the event it doesn't win the Tournament.

Enough said.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-22 10:12 AM - Post#337353    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Harvard blaming Yale for the tournament? Not exactly. Amaker was long a supporter of an Ivy League tournament (and repeatedly stated that it should always be at the Palestra). Let's face it--virtually all the players and coaches wanted a tournament. Just the old guard fans who didn't.

 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 679

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-23-22 10:20 AM - Post#337358    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I personally preferred the old way (it was a cool idiosyncracy, it guaranteed the Ivy rep would be the best team), but you can't deny the ILT adds interest to the bottom of the table. This crazy H/D/C/B thing we're all following for fourth wouldn't have meant anything in the old days. Plus there's still drama and meaning in the three-way tilt for first.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-22 10:48 AM - Post#337360    
    In response to iogyhufi

Clearly, the best thing about the ILT is that it only is for 4 teams--so there still is a cool Ivy idiosyncrasy.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
02-23-22 10:49 AM - Post#337361    
    In response to iogyhufi

This also may be a year where the tournament produces a winner with a better post tournament record (after 16 games) than the team that was best after 14. There is a symmetry to the 14 game tournament, but it is still an arbitrary cutoff. More basketball may lead to a better rep in some instances, even presuming the team with the best record is the best team.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-23-22 12:17 PM - Post#337375    
    In response to palestra38

I distinctly recall fallout from Yale being snubbed by the NIT. That doesn't mean Amaker and others weren't in favor of a tournament, but I understood that to be the trigger/clincher.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
Posts: 466

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
02-23-22 01:01 PM - Post#337378    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Definitely the tournament.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-23-22 02:51 PM - Post#337397    
    In response to SomeGuy

So if we take the logic to the extreme - 4 teams would play 16 games and whoever has the most wins goes to the Big Dance?? It would probably eliminate the 4th seed close to every year. I’d there are 2 teams with the same amount of wins, one more game or tiebreaker?

 
Tiger84 
Senior
Posts: 376

Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-23-22 04:04 PM - Post#337411    
    In response to Bryan

Answer: Be like the Princeton WBB team. Focus on the regular season title, and have an impressive enough resume that you are going to get an at-large bid if you lose Ivy Madness.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3634

Reg: 02-06-10
02-23-22 04:34 PM - Post#337413    
    In response to Tiger84

March Madness - specifically the first 2 weekends - is my Super Bowl. So that's the brass ring to me.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Which would you rather have?
02-23-22 08:55 PM - Post#337435    
    In response to Tiger84

To avoid the insanity of IvyMadness, you are absolutely correct as the only way to be fool proof from the foolishness is the very challenging task of getting a NCAAW Tournament bid no matter what happens at IvyMadness -- very challenging task.

Carla's team is a perfect example. If she did not have such a challenging schedule with excellent results, the Tigers would have to beat two teams a third time at Lavietes to get a NCAAW bid. Even though they would have a very good chance to win IvyMadness, your fate would still be determined by one game.

Instead of sending a team that might be a #9 seed that could do a great job in representing the league, the IL would send a #15 or #16 seed if the Tigers got knocked off.

Really brilliant strategy for branding but the problem does go away if the IL could ever become a 2 bid league on a consistent basis -- unlikely.

 
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