84grad
Junior
Posts: 277
Age: 64
Reg: 11-09-17
|
02-25-22 01:31 PM - Post#337515
Princeton favored by 7. The four games against Penn and Yale were tight, but Princeton's 3 point shooting will be the issue.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-25-22 02:14 PM - Post#337516
In response to 84grad
Both teams play limited rosters. Princeton by choice, Harvard due to injuries. Going to be difficult at a packed Jadwin on Senior Night. Both teams likely more fatigued on Sunday at Lavietes. Could be do or die for Harvard though. Provided some energy last weekend vs. Cornell.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-25-22 09:25 PM - Post#337562
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
It’s certainly a game. Forbes doing a great job on Tosan
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-25-22 09:50 PM - Post#337572
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Harvard played well. Outscored by 24 from 3. Not good enough to overcome that. Hope Noah’s ok. Forbes did a great job on Tosan. I think Tosan only score 2 or 4 points when Mason was in the game.
|
ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
|
02-25-22 10:01 PM - Post#337574
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Tosan won the game by taking Kirkwood out of it
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-25-22 10:05 PM - Post#337575
In response to ToothlessTiger
Kind of an analytics win for Princeton. More trey attempts, more FT attempts, fewer mid-range shots. And 14-30 from three covers up a few bad defensive possessions.
|
mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
|
02-27-22 04:52 PM - Post#337787
In response to SRP
Really tough season that ended the way it began: with injuries. The freshmen put up a good fight after Noah went down, but missing so many guys has just left us consistently a possession short in Ivy play.
The last time we had both of our two best players healthy for conference play was 2017. Crazy stuff.
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3050
Reg: 10-20-14
|
02-27-22 07:10 PM - Post#337799
In response to mobrien
A very tough season to say the least.
Kirkwood did a tremendous job leading the team, but there were just too many injuries.
While each team has had to deal with injuries, Harvard seems to have more than any other team in the league. Over the last few years, there often is a sizable number of non-uniformed players on the bench.
Is it fair to ask if the coaching and/or training staff could be doing things differently to decrease the sizable number of injuries or is it just bad luck?
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-27-22 09:58 PM - Post#337817
In response to rbg
That was a gritty performance by Harvard in the finale. Kind of backs up the depth of talent Amaker recruits, if not plays. Seems like half of Canada was on his bench.
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
Princeton
02-27-22 10:25 PM - Post#337821
In response to SRP
Amaker is certainly a master recruiter. It seems like he is three deep everywhere. I don’t see much of a drop off in talent in his injury backups though. One might wonder, after hearing the repeated bleats about bad luck and constant injuries, if improper training might have a hand in Cantab woes. Or possibly Amaker gambles on recruiting talented, but injury-prone players passed over by some other programs? Whatever their problem, I don’t lose sleep over it.
Edited by Tiger69 on 02-27-22 10:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-27-22 11:12 PM - Post#337825
In response to Tiger69
Amaker has landed some recruits that might not have chosen the Ivy League but for serious HS/Prep injuries. Chris Lewis and Bennett Pitcher come to mind.
However, to the best of my knowledge, key players like Bryce Aiken, Seth Towns, Kenyatta Smith and this year Ledlum, Forbes, Tretout, Ajogbor and Hemmings didn’t come with a history of injuries.
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-28-22 10:34 AM - Post#337838
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
FWIW, I've been speculating about this for years. Issues with training could be part of the explanation, and bad luck might account for some of it, but players having a history of injuries is almost certainly a factor. And keep in mind that if a high school player who has some sort of injury or health problem can keep it a secret, he almost definitely will. The fact that we don't know of such issues for some of the players who have been hurt doesn't mean they weren't there.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-28-22 03:44 PM - Post#337854
In response to Silver Maple
Certainly true that players hide injuries, but that would apply to everyone, whereas Harvard seems to suffer inordinately with regard to missing important players.
Based on their prep/hs records, it doesn't appear that Bryce or Seth missed any appreciable time. Also, guys like Siyani and Zena didn't run into injury issues until they were upperclassmen.
I'm just frustrated at how consistently our top players end up injured. As for Amaker, I think he does a masterful joy recruiting depth and then employing it.
This season - even with substantial time missed due to injury by Ledlum, Forbes, Ajogbor, Hemmings, Pitcher, and additional time missed by Lesmond and Freedman - Amaker kept Harvard in every game. Regardless, Harvard lost 7 games by 4 points or less. Frankly, I attribute that to fatigue or minor injury (see, Noah sitting out most of the second half due to less severe injuries in both one possession losses to Princeton).
Is it something that occurs once they get to Harvard? Certainly, the Seth Towns debacle led to accusations of a misdiagnosis on behalf of the Harvard medical staff, but once supposedly diagnosed by outside doctors Seth has suffered further related and unrelated setbacks.
The spector of a short bench and key players injured is not unusual for Harvard. I remember a decimated squad - missing Seth, Bryce and Chris Lewis - beating ranked St. Marys on the road in 2018. How about beating Yale in the final Ivy game of 2020, not only without Seth and Bryce, but without Christian Juzang as well. Then there was the lost season without Siyani, one where Zena played the second half of the season with an injury, missing a few games. There was the entire season with freshman Tommy McCarthy as our only point guard. Even with just McCarthy at the point, I loved having Zena and Cummings back to destroy Penn in the final game of the 2015-16 season.
Amaker has his flaws, and his strengths. Recruiting is certainly a strength, as is figuring out a way to keep his teams competitive, even when shorthanded.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-28-22 03:53 PM - Post#337855
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Amaker certainly has his strengths and you give him an impassioned defense. All I will say is that losing a lot of close games is, to me, not a good attribute. But this year is a mulligan. Everything for everyone had wrinkles upon wrinkles. Princeton turned out to have the most important element--experience. With Princeton and Yale losing their best players to graduation, next year should be wide open and it will be fairer to judge Amaker, among others.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-28-22 04:00 PM - Post#337856
In response to palestra38
I don't disagree with you about the close games, but many times it was obvious that Kirkwood and Sakota were gassed by crunch time.
No idea what next year brings. First, who will be healthy? Ledlum? Second, at what level can Ajogbor, Hemmings, Pitcher, Nelson, Tretout and Silverstein contribute? On the first three, I literally have no idea. Can Wocjik develop a shot? A very small recruiting class (one recruit I believe) coming in. Seems like not a very deep or experienced roster.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-28-22 04:37 PM - Post#337858
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
In yesterday’s game, a player who had had almost no minute this season came on for Harvard and played great. It didn’t look fluky; he made some good plays with not much strain or odd bounces. Why hadn’t he played earlier ona short-handed team? For that matter, wouldn’t he have been better off basketball-wise playing somewhere else? Maybe it was atypical of his play, but it makes one wonder.
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
02-28-22 05:22 PM - Post#337861
In response to SRP
I believe you're referring to Josh Hemmings, a 6'9" sophomore. Unfortunately, Hemmings was injured coming into the season. Without Mason Forbes, IMHO he was rushed back into action in December and, frankly, looked awful. No bounce or comfort level. In 35 minutes spread over 8 games, he scored 5 points, shooting 2-5 from the field and only 1-6 from the FT line. He committed more fouls (6) than points, and had 4 TO's. Hemmings clearly wasn't physically ready and he was very rusty.
Sunday against Princeton he looked like a completely different player, although in only 3 minutes of game time. Remember, he made as many buckets yesterday as he had made all season.
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
 03-01-22 12:39 AM - Post#337874
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Maybe the League should consider giving the Cantabs a few point “hard luck” handicap as in golf for each game, based on the level of opponent and the number of Cantabs unable to play that game due to injury.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-01-22 12:49 AM - Post#337875
In response to Tiger69
Maybe the League should consider giving the Cantabs a few point “hard luck” handicap as in golf for each game, based on the level of opponent and the number of Cantabs unable to play that game due to injury.
Gentleman's C 2.0.
Sorry, an A-.
|
Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
|
03-01-22 12:14 PM - Post#337880
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I thought the "player out of no where" reference was Evan Nelson. Where did he come from? He wasn't on those recruiting lists of 3 and 4-star studs the last three years. He didn't show up until late January or early February. He's going to be a factor the next 3 years.
|
