Bryan
Junior
Posts: 231
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 06:31 PM - Post#338467
In response to iogyhufi
It's really sloppy for the announcement to show Dingle as a senior rather than a sophomore.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-08-22 06:41 PM - Post#338469
In response to iogyhufi
Thrilled to see Tosan win POY as a junior/covid soph and unanimously to boot. Brian is totally deserving of COY given what he managed to pull off. I'm legit terrified of Saturday's game.
Brown well repped with ROY and a pair of 2nd-teamers. Columbia absent this year, though Nweke probably makes 2nd team if he didn't get injured transfer.
EDIT: Didn't realize he entered the transfer portal.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-08-22 06:48 PM - Post#338470
In response to gokinsmen
Brian Earl has done a tremendous job. Should not penalize Henderson because he had talented and experienced seniors. He also had a junior POY. He recruited them and coached them. He is the COY. His kids are not ready for an upset Saturday.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1890
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 06:55 PM - Post#338471
In response to iogyhufi
I think Mitch deserved COY. The fact that he kept the team together, kept them healthy and motivated and improving through the last TWO years should not be held against him, as some seem to be suggesting here, it’s the reason he deserved the award! Who thought Tosan would emerge as the dominant player he was this year? You have to give Mitch some of the credit for that (and the improvement of ALL of the other players around him). Earl did a really nice job with limited talent. But his team went 7-7. They lost 7 games, including some real stinkers. I agree with whoever suggested that the only reason Earl won the award was the sense that Cornell had to get something because they made it to the thingy at the end of the real season. In my book, that’s evidence that the thingy is degrading the league, not enhancing it.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1890
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 06:56 PM - Post#338472
In response to TigerFan
Looks like Toothless and I were posting much the same sentiment at the same time.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-08-22 07:03 PM - Post#338473
In response to iogyhufi
Selections are fine although I thought that Wright would get the slight edge over Jaelin based on his overall play, especially rebounding plus Ethan played all 14 games. In one game, especially a Power 5 team, I would select Jaelin over Wright based on his unique ability to get off a shot against top flight defenders.
The one common characteristic that I noted between 1st team and 2nd team is that the 1st team players are the premier one on one players in the league. They can all get off a shot, a good one, when needed. Maybe, I got it wrong but that seemed to be the consistent skill set amongst the first teamers.
The selection of Tosan makes a lot of sense based on the Tigers winning the IL crown and Tosan being the focal point.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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03-08-22 07:07 PM - Post#338474
In response to TigerFan
Even though recruiting and development are core areas of coaching, COY strikes me as a season-specific honor.
For the record, I would have voted for Mitch. I just can't complain about Brian winning - there can be more than one deserving candidate.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-08-22 07:13 PM - Post#338475
In response to gokinsmen
Both Mitch H and Brian E did such a good job that neither should have felt entitled to the award. I'm just sorry that an ex-tiger had to win it either way. 
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-08-22 07:40 PM - Post#338476
In response to TigerFan
Well, by this logic, the COY award should always go to the coach of the first-place team (it usually does, and maybe it should, but then it seems like there's little to discuss). But even aside from that, Earl is trying to build a program at a school where success is an aberration rather than the norm, and Henderson is at a school where success is expected year in and year out.
Plus the coaches are the ones who vote on these awards, and they all seemed to think Earl was more deserving than Henderson. Which says a lot, I think.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1890
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 07:46 PM - Post#338477
In response to iogyhufi
Your last point is a good one—Brian got the nod from his peers and that is certainly meaningful. I do think that this is a special year, though, because coaches had to carry their team through the lonely COVID misery of 2020-21 so winning the crown this year is reflective of two years of particularly strong leadership.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 412
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 07:46 PM - Post#338478
In response to Penndemonium
Hard to understand how Mitch did not win COY, Brian did a great job getting Cornell to 4th place but that is not award-worthy.
Other selections make sense. I think Friberg deserved HM but cannot argue with how this shook out.
In last week’s Ivy Hoops Hour podcast Sydney Johnson talked about how Jaelin had a gleam in his eye the last several weeks of the season. He is a dangerous player when his is “on” and I think that is what got him on the 1st Team, hoping he brings that intensity with him to the ILT.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2275
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 08:52 PM - Post#338479
In response to Tiger81
I think Friberg deserved HM but cannot argue with how this shook out.
Agreed. His deadly shooting especially from the corner carried the team at times.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-08-22 10:40 PM - Post#338485
In response to Tiger81
I actually would put Donahue ahead of Henderson for COY this year, too. It may be that Henderson made it look too easy. Despite what the preseason poll said, Henderson managed to look like he had the team that should win it all. Yes, he should get credit for recruiting and developing the team he did, but in the end it looked like he had the best team — if anything the season felt like maybe Princeton should have won by more than they did.
That’s not to say Henderson isn’t deserving too. The league has a bunch of very good coaches right now. I’d just go with Earl and Donahue this year. Earl for exceeding any reasonable expectation, and Donahue for exceeding what anyone thought Penn could do after the OOC season.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-08-22 10:52 PM - Post#338486
In response to SomeGuy
I generally don't care about these awards, but it is nutty to play down how intentional the development of this PU team has been. We all know MH is an analytics guy and he has taken it to an extreme with this group, from the avoidance of fouling and of taking tough twos, to the emphasis on defensive rebounding in the man-to-man setup, to the selection of a bunch of deadly outside shooters for PT rather than looking for more defensive athleticism, to the higher pace allowing those shooters to converge to their mean more often.
I haven't always loved all of that, especially how the defense has looked, but the success of this formula and set of tradeoffs, almost in textbook form, can't be denied.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-08-22 11:55 PM - Post#338489
In response to SecS3
Also, Julia Cunningham is the defensive player of the year. She's become the reincarnation of Will Venable. Unless it's Ellie Mitchell. Her worth on the defensive end can't be put into stats.
On the Berube/Price podcast, Julia Cunningham was a guest. Julia stated that Carla may not have even recruited her because she was not a good defensive player and not particularly interested in playing defense. Carla stated that Julia was not a great defender in year one but Julia worked hard during the off year to improve her lateral quickness and she committed to learn everything that she could about Berube's defense. Carla acknowledged that she now the best perimeter defender on the Tigers.
I have no doubt that Carla sets extremely high expectations as to playing defense. Her entire philosophy is built on the principle that great defense gives you a chance in every single game. Players have obviously bought in. Julia, like Myers, like Stone would like to play basketball overseas after graduation.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 380
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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03-09-22 12:02 AM - Post#338492
In response to Tiger81
Pretty sure that "Honorable Mention" in the PoY voting simply means "Also receiving votes". Coaches select 5 first team and 5 second team names, anyone in the top 10+ties gets put on an all-ivy team and HM is anyone left.
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Vonsid
Sophomore
Posts: 145
Reg: 03-12-16
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Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-09-22 01:22 AM - Post#338493
In response to Tiger84
There is no doubt MH should of won COY. It is appalling that a coach who goes 7 and 7 and barely makes the tournament wins COY. Dartmouth, Harvard, or Brown could of been Cornell.
This is the issue with Ivy - give out a feel good award with a teddy bear to a mediocre team because "we want to be balanced and fair" instead of recognizing that MH just simply out recruited and out coached everyone.
I hope Princeton and MH prove everyone in this tournament that he deserved it. If another team goes to the tournament it'll be another Ivy League blunder just like this one.
Edited by Vonsid on 03-09-22 01:46 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-09-22 07:35 AM - Post#338494
In response to Vonsid
Some of this is how you define coaching. In preferring Earl for this year, I am viewing it kind of the way Bum Phillips once described Don Shula. What happens if the coaches simply switched teams and ran it back? Earl gave the impression of that he took a team that had limited talent and experience and got it to play better than reasonably imaginable. I’m not at all surprised that Columbia finished in the bottom 10 or so teams in division one. I thought Cornell would be there too. Instead, Earl took a team that was at the bottom of division one in both experience and talent, and got them to play at a highly competitive level. It is the most surprising thing that happened in our league this year.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-09-22 07:38 AM - Post#338495
In response to Vonsid
Who do you think Mitch voted for?
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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03-09-22 08:23 AM - Post#338496
In response to bradley
When a 16 seed team wins ivyMadness plays a Gonzaga type team, it will be a reality check but nothing will change due to the underlying principles of IvyMadness.
That means that the Ivy 16 seed has won the "first four" game and garnered a big NCAA check for the league.
Sounds good to me!
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