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Username Post: Columbia vs. Lafayette        (Topic#26781)
Columbia 37P6 
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Posts: 2188

Reg: 02-14-06
12-11-22 08:13 PM - Post#347986    

Columbia's Men Basketball Team plays an away game tomorrow night against a 1-9 Lafayette team that is somewhat better than its record. I see this game as an important indicator of what we might expect from the Lions in their Ivy League games that are just three weeks away. Let's start with the very good. Columbia is coming off its best performance of the season, a hard fought overtime loss to Fairleigh-Dickinson. While F-D is not exactly a powerhouse, Columbia did well against a team that had excellent guards who executed a high octane offense that the Lions were forced to adopt themselves to stay in the game. So, our guys now have an identity of their own that they can build on as the Ivy conference games approach. We have now seen enough of the first year, Avery Brown, to know that he is a terrific talent who is capable of becoming an outstanding player in the Ivy League. My prediction is that Brown will be one of the top three rookies in the Ivy League this year, and possibly #1. Brown is a smart point guard and clearly our go-to guy already. He complements well our sophomore guard Rubio de la Rosa who is a very skilled player. The guards are clearly the strength of this Columbia team with freshman Kenny Noland and sophomores Zavier McLean and Jaden Cooper also being very good players. While the good news is that Columbia's guards are very good and will get better, the bad news is that our frontcourt players are not there yet. Our two freshmen, Zine Bedri and Blair Thompson are both very talented, but have not proven yet that they can score enough points in the paint or rebound or defend well enough near the basket for the Lions to defeat their Ivy League opponents. Without those two making a major contribution, I cannot reasonably see the Lions being successful against their Ivy opponents given the injury to Liam Murphy, who is our only star quality big man. Josh Odunono has lots of talent, but is not quite there yet. Bedri's back-up, Jake Tavroff, is a force underneath and could develop into an excellent center with proper coaching. Same with the 6'9" Robbie Stankard, who is big, strong and athletic, but is tempted by his outside shooting ability to go outside. Bedri, Tavroff and Stanhard need to stay in the low post area near the basket and leave the three-point shooting and most of what goes with it to the guards. I wonder what others on this Board feel at this time.

 
Chet Forte 
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Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-12-22 11:12 AM - Post#348002    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I agree on Brown and like Noland, McLean and Cooper. I think DLR is an excellent athlete but really needs to work on his three point shooting. I am a fan of Odunono, who is the most athletic front court guy we have. I think Tavroff should start—he is a big, strong guy who has improved quite a bit; and I like Stankard off the bench but would like to see him use his size in the paint. Bedri and Thompson are not strong enough to play in the front court and need a year in the weight room. As far as Murphy, I am just not sure if he has more of a ceiling—he seems to have trouble creating his shot.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-12-22 02:09 PM - Post#348009    
    In response to Chet Forte

The basketball podcast has an informative tidbit about Bedrie. In an interview with Odununo, he says he has been helping Bedri to overcome some of the defenses opponents have been using against him. As Odununo explains it, the problem is that few coaches in HS bball scout opposing players. Now, for the first time, Bedri is encountering players who have been prepped to take away what he likes to do. By implication, then, that is why Bedri has taken a step back in recent games.

 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2188

Reg: 02-14-06
12-12-22 02:25 PM - Post#348011    
    In response to cc66

Per Barry Rorhsen, the former Manhattan College Basketball Coach, who has been the ESPN+ analyst in recent games, the Lions have been unable to get Bedri the ball close to the basket where he is most effective. That seems like a fairly simple coaching fix. Let's see what happens tonight against 1-10 Lafayette.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-12-22 02:46 PM - Post#348013    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Meanwhile let’s celebrate Brown as ROW


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-12-22 03:16 PM - Post#348015    
    In response to Chet Forte

Brown's designation is well-deserved. But despite Lafayette's 1-10 record, we are supposed to lose by 8 pts, per KP, where we are now ranked #349, and they are ranked #282, in a home game. It would be a real breakthrough to exceed expectations, but I wouldn't count on it, because we haven't as yet all season.



 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
Columbia vs. Lafayette
12-12-22 09:52 PM - Post#348036    
    In response to cc66

Wow! Someone didn't get the message that we were supposed to lose by 8. Instead, we win 57-45: Brown with 11, Thompson with 13, and the team with best defense we've had all season.

Edited by cc66 on 12-12-22 09:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-12-22 10:00 PM - Post#348038    
    In response to cc66

I hope we have turned a corner; I was impressed.


 
Eric Von Zipper 
Senior
Posts: 343

Age: 71
Reg: 11-11-17
12-12-22 10:27 PM - Post#348040    
    In response to Chet Forte

Out-rebounded the Leopards by 20+

 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2188

Reg: 02-14-06
12-12-22 11:03 PM - Post#348042    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

I was disappointed that we did not go up tempo which was my expectation after the Fairleigh-Dickinson game. However, we won the game and played good defense and rebounded well. We still have a way to go to compete with our Ivy brethren, but the Fab Four are doing ok.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-12-22 11:11 PM - Post#348044    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

10 rebounds and 6 points from Tavroff in 17 minutes.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-13-22 09:33 AM - Post#348050    
    In response to Chet Forte

Yes, his ORAT was 169.

Bedri's was 27.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-14-22 03:21 PM - Post#348105    
    In response to cc66

Tavroff should be getting 25-30 minutes a game; he is clearly the most powerful front court guy on the team and can be a real enforcer in the paint.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 33015

Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-22 04:27 PM - Post#348107    
    In response to Chet Forte

As I told you Chet, you have to be patient.

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-14-22 05:29 PM - Post#348115    
    In response to palestra38

It will be interesting to see whether Engles changes who starts, i.e., does he stick with Bedri when his ORAT in the last game was exactly 1/6 (27/169) of Tavroff's?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 33015

Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-22 05:47 PM - Post#348116    
    In response to cc66

It's one game. But if that happened over an extended period, I would suspect he'll make a change.

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-14-22 08:57 PM - Post#348121    
    In response to palestra38

Of course. The obvious trade-off is Bedri's mobility vs. Tavroff's strength. If Bedri spends the off-season in the weight room and adds 10-15 lbs, he probably has more range and potential than Tavroff. But right now, he's lost his offense, and he is being pushed around, while half-way through his second season, something seems to have clicked in for Tavroff.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2977

Reg: 03-02-08
12-15-22 02:42 PM - Post#348145    
    In response to cc66

What about when Murphy returns. He seems to be a favorite of Engles and is likely to return to the starting lineup. Based upon what I have seen from him in 2 plus years as a starter, I wonder if he has reached his ceiling.


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2188

Reg: 02-14-06
12-16-22 11:01 AM - Post#348181    
    In response to Chet Forte


Engles has to be very careful not to do anything that would screw up the positive trend in recruiting this year for which he may or may not be responsible. I doubt that anyone on this Board has any idea how Columbia finally succeeded in recruiting an outstanding group of freshman. How did that happen? It's also important to remember that several of Engles top recruits transferred rather quickly to other schools, e.g Michigan, Xavier and St. Joe.

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2204

Reg: 10-09-09
12-16-22 03:17 PM - Post#348190    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Let's hope that this cohort sticks together because they have developed a sense of themselves as a team. Since several have ties dating back to HS, leaving now does seem less likely.

As to who is responsible for the upswing in recruiting, my guess is that it is attributable to Tobe Carberry, who was hired from Yale. He recruited well for Yale, and now seems to have brought those skills to Columbia.

My supposition about Engles has always been that he is a really nice man who knows his basketball, but that he is more of a quiet, patient teacher than a charismatic basketball coach. Within the subset of potential recruits, there are only a small number who gravitate toward this style of coaching. If you are looking for someone to yell at you, he's just not your guy.

 
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