Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 03:17 PM - Post#349654
102-85 loss—Cornell was the better team, no question. We played hard but the usual problems did us in—sloppy passing and unforced turnovers, poor shooting, defensive laps, and inexplicable misses under the basket. Since we were in the same place or better 7 years ago as Cornell the question is obvious: how did they get so much better than us over the past few years? Can they/do they recruit players we cannot admit? Did they load up on JC transfers, ag school and hotel admin guys? Is Earl a better recruiter all else being equal? Is he a better coach?
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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01-16-23 04:08 PM - Post#349659
In response to Chet Forte
I thought the story they told on the broadcast today about Coach Earl was telling - essentially, if you believe the Columbia commentators, during the Covid pause, Earl looked at the league and realized that he wasn't going to out-recruit the other teams and he wasn't going to get better athletes than the other teams, so he created a system which he felt would suit the players he had in his program and would give his team an advantage in league play. Fair to say that it's worked out for him thus far.
I think the recruiting at Columbia has picked up since Tobe Carberry joined the staff. There are a bunch of talented young players on the team and another good class coming in next year, but I doubt Engles and co. can maintain that recruiting if they continue to lose 12-13 Ivy games every season.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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01-16-23 04:34 PM - Post#349661
In response to Ever True
I thought the story they told on the broadcast today about Coach Earl was telling - essentially, if you believe the Columbia commentators, during the Covid pause, Earl looked at the league and realized that he wasn't going to out-recruit the other teams and he wasn't going to get better athletes than the other teams, so he created a system which he felt would suit the players he had in his program and would give his team an advantage in league play. Fair to say that it's worked out for him thus far.
That's how it is understood in Ithaca. Earl's 4th year -- his first without Matt Morgan -- was brutal and it did not look like it was going to work. Then he had his Eureka moment in the COVID break, and here we are. Honestly, no one has looked at Cornell's recruits over the last four years and said "That is a killer class."
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 04:39 PM - Post#349662
In response to Ever True
We had 22 turnovers, and we were in foul trouble for what seemed like forever. But to me the big difference was Cornell’s three point shooting—when they had open looks they seemed not to miss. Our three point shooting is not good, and we have trouble getting good looks.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 04:59 PM - Post#349665
In response to Chet Forte
While we were losing handily to Cornell our WBB team routed Cornell in Ithaca.
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scoop85
Freshman
Posts: 64
Loc: Goshen, NY
Reg: 02-16-12
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Re: Cornell game
01-16-23 05:30 PM - Post#349669
In response to Chet Forte
102-85 loss—Cornell was the better team, no question. We played hard but the usual problems did us in—sloppy passing and unforced turnovers, poor shooting, defensive laps, and inexplicable misses under the basket. Since we were in the same place or better 7 years ago as Cornell the question is obvious: how did they get so much better than us over the past few years? Can they/do they recruit players we cannot admit? Did they load up on JC transfers, ag school and hotel admin guys? Is Earl a better recruiter all else being equal? Is he a better coach?
What Earl has done is quite amazing, given as has been pointed out that very few of the players on the roster were heavily recruited at the D1 level. As to your question, Cornell has 1 JUCO transfer on the current roster (Watson). And as to your question regarding the academic breakdown of the roster--and the seemingly snide implication that students in the Agriculture and Hotel schools are somehow unworthy--the Cornell roster has students in these programs: Architecture, Art & Planning -- 2; Industrial and Labor Relations -- 4; Engineering -- 2; Hotel Administration -- 1; Agriculture and Life Sciences -- 2; Arts & Sciences - 4; Human Ecology - 1; Johnson School of Business -- 2
Edited by scoop85 on 01-16-23 05:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 05:50 PM - Post#349671
In response to scoop85
No intention to be snide.
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scoop85
Freshman
Posts: 64
Loc: Goshen, NY
Reg: 02-16-12
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01-16-23 06:06 PM - Post#349673
In response to Chet Forte
No intention to be snide.
Ok, fine. But why then did you specifically mention the Ag & Hotel schools?
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 06:11 PM - Post#349675
In response to scoop85
I guess you got me there,.
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scoop85
Freshman
Posts: 64
Loc: Goshen, NY
Reg: 02-16-12
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01-16-23 06:20 PM - Post#349677
In response to Chet Forte
I guess you got me there,.
I guess so!
And by the way, while your men's program is struggling and your women's program is thriving, Cornell has the opposite situation as our women's program is the epitome of mediocrity. I hope our new AD will try to fix that program with a coaching change.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-16-23 07:05 PM - Post#349682
In response to scoop85
Coaches matter—look at what Bagnoli did to resurrect football from a near death experience. And look at Brett Boretti and how he has established the premier Ivy baseball program and in fact one of the best programs in the north east. Same with our WBB coach.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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Cornell game
01-16-23 11:02 PM - Post#349747
In response to Chet Forte
It seems Columbia's point total didn't rate a discussion here.
Edited by internetter on 01-16-23 11:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-16-23 11:02 PM - Post#349748
In response to Chet Forte
Columbia has many outstanding coaches not just Al Bagnoli, Megan Griffith and Brett Boretti, but the head coach and assistant coaches of practically every sport. While the outdoor facilities at Baker Field were improved dramatically during Dr. Dianne Murphy's tenure due to the generosity of some incredibly great alumni, Columbia's one indoor facility is inferior to those found at every other Ivy League School. Why is that? Well, there are many reasons, with the foremost being that since the radical led student riots of 1968 Columbia has not had a University President with the courage and conviction to attempt to build a world class athletic facility. The current University President who is retiring in June had a master plan for a magnificent new campus in Manhattanville, which has been implemented, but he failed miserably in regards to improving the indoor facilities on campus in any significant manner.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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 01-17-23 07:34 AM - Post#349771
In response to Columbia 37P6
As far as the gym in the park, all approvals were in place by 1963 but the administration/trustees did not break ground until the funding was in place. A tragic mistake, since it could have been and should have been completed well before the lunatic fringe took over the campus in 1968. As far as us scoring 85 points, I say so what—Cornell plays very fast and routinely gives up over 80 points. Numerous possessions lead to more points. I am more concerned with our horrendous 3 point shooting, our 22 turnovers, and our ineffective defense.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-23 01:04 PM - Post#349789
In response to Chet Forte
https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-basketbal l/s...
Not many teams scored as many as 85 points vs. Cornell.
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cc66
Postdoc
Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-17-23 02:56 PM - Post#349798
In response to internetter
Our offense was pretty good, at 1.10 pts. per possession, led, most amazingly, by Tavroff, who clocked in at 1.88.
We lost, however, because our defense gave up 1.32.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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 01-17-23 04:00 PM - Post#349803
In response to cc66
I think Tavroff can be a very good player if he can perfect more offensive skills and stay out of foul trouble. He reminds me a little of John Baumann, a front court player who eventually reached all Ivy status—same body type but not quite as tall.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-17-23 07:36 PM - Post#349821
In response to Chet Forte
Gentlemen, have you read Columbia alum Michael Valmas' recent explanation on the Voy Forum Ivy Sports Board why Columbia's Athletic Director has not terminated Coach Engles despite his six/seven year won-loss record. According to Mr. Valmas, Columbia was bequeathed an unspecified amount of money in the will of a prominent team supporter which bequest was conditioned upon Mr. Engles remaining Columbia's head men's basketball coach for as long he wishes.
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cc66
Postdoc
Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-17-23 07:44 PM - Post#349822
In response to Columbia 37P6
Gerald Sherwin?
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