Chet Forte
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Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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 01-21-23 07:11 PM - Post#349949
Strike the comments from the Cornell game, or the Penn game, or the Princeton gam, and fill in Brown. Do not be misled by the final score (97-85); it wasn’t nearly that close. Brown had better players and it showed. Our defense was non-existent. We need to recognize that we simply are not competitive in our league. PS, the bowling shirts were back on our staff today.
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cc66
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Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-21-23 08:24 PM - Post#349970
In response to Chet Forte
But with Hsu's 26, the women won by more (20) than the men lost.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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01-21-23 08:51 PM - Post#349985
In response to cc66
Somehow that strikes me as cold comfort. There is an enormous gap right now in IL MBB before the 7 top teams (all of whom are competitive with each other) and us. Here are a few specifics from today: on free throws we were 8 for 15, which would be poor for an average high school team; we had any number of unforced turnovers, usually caused by holding the ball too long and then making passes into traffic; allowing 3 and 4 shots under the basket to Brown; allowing easy back door layups; missing easy shots under the basket; and on at least two occasions throwing the ball away on in-bounds plays.
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Columbia 37P6
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Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-21-23 10:08 PM - Post#349993
In response to Chet Forte
Chet, you are right on with your comments, and highlight the coaching issues that we have been talking about forever and just haven't been addressed at all by whomever is actually calling the shots in the Columbia Men's Basketball Program. It has taken the entire non-conference season and almost half of the Ivy League season for us to realize that Coach Engles has struck out once again, this time missing altogether what should have been obvious to him before the season started. Engles knew or should have known, that the Lions would not be able to compete with nearly all their opponents because their frontcourt just didn't match up physically with their opponents. For whatever reason, the team's only experienced center, Patrick Harding, was not on the roster when the season started. The Lions new center, the freshman, Bedri, is a very talented player, who is not yet ready to do it by himself inside. His back-up, Tavroff, has the size and strength, but not the experience to defend against his opponents. So, as usual, Engles missed the boat upon its departure. Undoubtedly, his supporters, if there are still any remaining, will cry out "don't fire me, I have two good big men coming in" and therefore everything is going to change. Well one of the two players was originally scheduled to come in last year, and when he was reclassified, Engles did not recruit anyone to replace him. Furthermore, there are only two known incoming recruits so the Lions are unlikely to have significant depth next year as well. Barring a miracle of sorts, an Engles coached team will be non-competitive once again in the Ivy League next year.
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cc66
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Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-22-23 11:32 AM - Post#350015
In response to Columbia 37P6
Here's the relevant test: in two years, when DLR is a senior, the first years are juniors, and Engels is the coach, how many games will we win?
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Columbia 37P6
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Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-22-23 08:57 PM - Post#350046
In response to cc66
Very clever! I almost missed the humor of asking how many games Columbia will win in the 2024-25 season if Engles is still coaching the team. We are once again in the Ivy League cellar with a 1-5 record. We are likely to be the underdog in the remaining eight Ivy League games. Our pre-conference record was terrible even with the big wins over Sarah Lawrence and New York Maritime.
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cc66
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Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-22-23 11:28 PM - Post#350051
In response to Columbia 37P6
No, I really wasn't trying to be clever. The question was intended to discern whether even with experience, we think this group of players is eternally consigned to the bottom of the IL, or if not, by exactly how much you think we'll improve.
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Columbia 37P6
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Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-23-23 12:42 AM - Post#350054
In response to cc66
Understood, but with all due respect, the questions you are asking are just too broad in nature for anyone to give a reasonable response. It's just impossible to predict how the Columbia Men's Basketball Team will do in the Ivy League two years from now given the many unknows.
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cc66
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Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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01-23-23 12:24 PM - Post#350074
In response to Columbia 37P6
Of course. And I will happily promise not to remind you of your prediction, unless it is uncannily accurate.
Nevertheless, I would argue that the purpose of the exercise remains valid. By now, the operative sentiment among Columbia fans is that this season--the 3rd in a row, will conclude with a 1-13 record, and that Engels cannot coach this team to success. Although a projection two years out is, admittedly, pretty dicey, it does try to distinguish between a young team going through some very unpleasant growing pains, and a team that might, in several years time, be competitive.
I myself ping-pong between these outcomes, so I was just wondering what others thought.
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Columbia 37P6
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Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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01-23-23 03:34 PM - Post#350076
In response to cc66
Well, those are fair ground rules, and I share your interest in what others might say, but the problem for me is that I am used to having open and frank discussions with people based upon factual results and reasonable analysis and, for whatever reason, I haven't seen any of that going on at Columbia regarding the men's basketball program. What I am saying is that I prefer the open dialogue of athletics that takes place weekly at the Big Ten and other Power Conference schools. Interested alumni attend rotary luncheons and the like, and every decision a coach makes is discussed openly by the people in attendance. You cannot hide from everyone at those luncheons whereas the opposite is the case with the Columbia Men's Basketball Program. Thus, someone like our present men's basketball coach remains unscathed by public criticism despite a horrible record of performance for many years. Something has to be done to remedy that problem. So, if we are guessing what is going to happen two or three years from now, we have to assume that the same person will be around, and if so, the losing record will continue. That beign the case, I don't see Columbia Men's Basketball being competitive in the Ivy League two years from now. Our coach has the worst record of any coach in the League so why would we expect things to change now. In my opinion, Columbia already had sufficient talent on the roster at the start of this season to be competitive by the time Ivy League play started. Sure, the four freshmen lacked experience at the college level, but they are all talented players and a decent coach would have moulded them into a winning team in no time. While the lack of an experienced big men was a serious problem, a good coach would have worked around it. Anyway, I am positive on all four of the freshmen as well as a number of the older players. I blame Coach Engles and not the players for our lack of success this year. Two years from now, the players (assuming they remain) will be more experienced and better, but i cannot see Columbia competing successfully in the Ivy League without a coaching change by the end of this season.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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 01-23-23 04:57 PM - Post#350078
In response to Columbia 37P6
Most successful coaches have strong people skills. It’s not just the whiteboard skills. I’m sure Engles knows basketball. I’m also sure that he is a decent man of high integrity. But he seems to lack something, whether it is the ability to connect, or to communicate, or to inspire, whatever it is, just is lacking. spend five minutes with Al Bagnoli and you will see that he commands respect and can connect with others. Likewise Brett Boretti. Whatever it is, in watching the Brown coach communicate with his players last weekend I saw a certain “it” factor that is missing in Engles. PS, those ridiculous bowling shirts don’t help.
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