LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 445
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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01-23-23 06:13 PM - Post#350083
Second time he wins that honor. A little early
to think about individual honors, but if the awards were
given now, Princeton has legitimate claims to Player,
Freshman and Coach of he Year.
They are an easy team to watch and support.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-24-23 12:09 AM - Post#350129
In response to LocalTiger
We’d best not count our chickens ….
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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01-24-23 11:52 AM - Post#350148
In response to Tiger69
In a press scrum following the Dartmouth game Mitch said he did not believe any other freshman player started every game. And this kid gets better every night. His rebounding skill is uncanny, he is the men's team Ellie Mitchell. Even Myles Stephens did not start until the middle of his sophomore year and he was a pretty goid rebounder, too.
Tosan was more effective last year because of his historic assist total, but he remains the bell cow. A lot of POY competition.
If the team wins the title Mitch should be a strong candidate for COY.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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Pearce is Freshman of week
01-24-23 01:25 PM - Post#350153
In response to ToothlessTiger
I predict another year with different winners of the 14 game League Championship and the 2 game tournament. That should make the real 14 game Champ justifiably furious, whoever that might be. Going forward, the future Champ should get the NCAA BID and the tourney winner should get the consolation NIT bid. If the same team wins both, let the NCAA decide if we get multiple bids like the Power 5 Conferences.
Edited by Tiger69 on 01-24-23 01:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 445
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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01-24-23 01:38 PM - Post#350154
In response to Tiger69
Jones was interviewed on ESPNU radio this morning.
Not quite locker room Board material, but very confident
Yale should win the League. Early sloppiness means
no room for error, but OOC and recent history makes
them team to beat.
Saturday means more to them than us -- standings and we are away-- but we need to show up with some swagger.
We want to. win the regular season and the Tournament,
and Saturday is a message game.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
01-24-23 02:11 PM - Post#350157
In response to Tiger69
That should make the real 14 game Champ justifiably furious, whoever that might be. Going forward, the future Champ should get the NCAA BID and the tourney winner should get the consolation NIT bid. If the same team wins both, let the NCAA decide if we get multiple bids like the Power 5 Conferences.
We've gone through this before.
1) Why would the regular season champ be "furious" about not going to the NCAA if they don't win the conference tournament? It happens several times a year every year. Everyone knows the rules.
2) What's in it for the NIT to agree to take a school that they don't want? They need to sell tickets. The NCAA probably doesn't give a **** if a one-bid conference sends its regular season champ or its 7th place team. Both will be underdogs in the first round anyway... Worst case scenario, the 7th place team goes to the play-in game and has a chance to win a game when everyone's watching.
Edited by Go Green on 01-24-23 02:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1352
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
01-24-23 03:47 PM - Post#350162
In response to Go Green
We've gone through this before.
Yes, yes we have. Yet that doesn't seem to stop, or even slow, your roll.
It's the old "If I didn't convince people the first 100 times I said it, I guess I need to say it again" theory that still is looking for empirical evidence.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-24-23 04:17 PM - Post#350163
In response to sparman
How's this:
The tournament is here to stay. It's normal. Everyone is playing by the same rules. It's basketball as we know it.
Being "furious" that the regular season champ won't go to the NCAA if they lose the conference tournament is like being "furious" that your team lost a game on a three-point shot because the three-point line didn't exist in your day.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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01-24-23 04:40 PM - Post#350164
In response to LocalTiger
In the Henderson years Jones has a better record against the Tigers than any other coach. And he is usually a little chippy about it. He had very little to say about the Tigers in the post tourney press conf after first Ivy Madness, and that team was 16-0. No one on the Princeton side was surprised.
This is a big game but it is only the first of a potential 3 matchups.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 445
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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01-24-23 05:11 PM - Post#350166
In response to ToothlessTiger
I agree with all of that. My concern is that Princeton
plays with less confidence against Yale than the other Ivies,
This team is still finding itself. Three freshman are big
contributors. They don't need to win, but they need
to play with confidence and poise. If that happens, their talent
should carry the day.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-24-23 08:57 PM - Post#350172
In response to LocalTiger
The tournament is stupid, unlike the three-point line, and would be easily reversible, also unlike the three-point line.
It is has made the season notably worse, with excessive attention focused on the battle for mediocrity (4th place).
It reduced the League's desirable differentiation and "old-school" flair in favor of mimicking the bottom-feeding low majors.
It has failed to deliver big crowds and a great atmosphere as was promised, and not holding it on the higher seed's home floor is ridiculous, as is the shoehorning of the women's and men's events together to the detriment of both.
Of course players and coaches will say they like it, but unfortunately for reasons extraneous to the long-term health and well-being of the league. Even something like second-place and third-place have a playoff game to take on the first-place team (which gets a bye) would be better than the current format.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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01-24-23 10:10 PM - Post#350173
In response to SRP
Please get off your soapbox. You don't like the tournament, but it's over. We are tired of this.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-24-23 11:25 PM - Post#350178
In response to ToothlessTiger
Sorry TT. I’m not getting over it. Bad decisions can be reversed. Not much chance of the following happening anytime soon. But, let’s say Dartmouth somehow wins the League Championship and then loses the silly 2 game tourney. How do you think our friend Go Green will react to an NIT spot? So far, we are the only school that got screwed out a trip to the real Tournament (NCAA). Let’s see how others feel when it happens to their team … especially when the silly tourney is played on a hostile court.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-24-23 11:32 PM - Post#350180
In response to Go Green
GG. You can have you f-ing 2 game tournament. Just give it the prize it deserves … the NIT. The tourney is a consolation event and therefore deserves the consolation prize. The Real Champ is the one who won over the season, not over a weekend, and therefore deserves the real prize: a trip to face the best.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-24-23 11:36 PM - Post#350181
In response to Tiger69
Caden Pierce (Spell check for the old school alums) is the Frosh of the week. Congrats.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
01-24-23 11:51 PM - Post#350182
In response to sparman
Sparman: we are fellow Tigers and I nearly always respect your informed posts. But, simply because the decision, very BAD imho, was made to give the tourney winner the NCAA bid does not mean that it cannot be reversed. Last year Princeton WON the Ivy Basketball Championship. Yet we lost a subsequent tourney game by a basket to yale effectively undoing our achievement of winning the season Championship and therefore were “awarded” an NIT bid. In the NIT The team played as if it didn’t care and neither did I. Meanwhile, yale, a season also ran, embarrassed the Ivies by losing their NCAA game in which they were clearly overmatched.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-25-23 06:21 AM - Post#350184
In response to Tiger69
Sorry TT. I’m not getting over it. Bad decisions can be reversed. Not much chance of the following happening anytime soon. But, let’s say Dartmouth somehow wins the League Championship and then loses the silly 2 game tourney. How do you think our friend Go Green will react to an NIT spot? So far, we are the only school that got screwed out a trip to the real Tournament (NCAA). Let’s see how others feel when it happens to their team … especially when the silly tourney is played on a hostile court.
Again, non-#1 seeds win their conference tournaments every year. Occasionally, they make a big run in the NCAA. Florida Gulf Coast and St. Peter's come to mind. Numerous others either played competitively or even won games (Bucknell, Holy Cross). If it were up to you, none of that would have happened.
If Princeton didn't take the NIT seriously last season, that's their own fault. They took the NIT seriously in 1999 and it looked like everyone had a lot of fun. I even went to the game against Xavier and sat next to a then-Princeton student who said that he had hitchhiked from NJ to Cincinnati to watch the game. Princeton played well, but eventually fell to a physically superior Xavier team.
And yes, I assure you that improvements to the game such as the three-point line and the shot clock can indeed be reversed. They won't be because they made the game better. Ditto for conference tournaments. They're fun. I'm sorry that they aren't your cup of tea. But you look like such an old foogy by continuing to oppose them.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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Pearce is Freshman of week
01-25-23 06:29 AM - Post#350185
In response to Tiger69
Sorry TT. I’m not getting over it. Bad decisions can be reversed. Not much chance of the following happening anytime soon. But, let’s say Dartmouth somehow wins the League Championship and then loses the silly 2 game tourney. How do you think our friend Go Green will react to an NIT spot? So far, we are the only school that got screwed out a trip to the real Tournament (NCAA). Let’s see how others feel when it happens to their team … especially when the silly tourney is played on a hostile court.
As I have said several times in the past, I'd be fine with going to the NIT if Dartmouth won the regular season and lost the conference tournament. I think the NIT is fun. Princeton men had a great NIT run in 1999. Columbia women had a great WNIT run last season.
Why you continue to treat the NIT as some sort of disgrace is a mystery to me. If you didn't watch Princeton in 1999 or Columbia last season, you missed something.
Edited by Go Green on 01-25-23 06:41 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1352
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
01-25-23 09:43 AM - Post#350186
In response to Tiger69
T69, you were not the intended subject of my post. I should have been clearer.
As I think is well known, I am not in "the tournament is a good thing" camp, but I don’t see it being changed so I try to limit my comments to the occasional snarky joke at the tournament's expense when the opportunity presents itself.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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01-25-23 11:28 AM - Post#350188
In response to sparman
What some call a "bad decision" and a "stupid idea" were approved overwhelmingly by the players, the coaches and the athletic administrators. Full disclosure, every time I offered an opinion before the tournament was approved I was against it. I have since experienced a change of heart. Lots of excitement in a setting in which the #1 seed can be defeated. If the regular season title winner goes to the big dance the rationale for the ILT disappears.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-25-23 12:09 PM - Post#350191
In response to ToothlessTiger
GG: Please read my comments carefully. I AM NOT AGAINST THE D@MN TOURNEY, OR ANY OF THE OTHER GROWING NUMBER OF POST SEASON TOURNAMENTS IF THE TEAMS ARE OFFERED BIDS AND THE PLAYERS WISH TO PLAY!!! I SIMPLY BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THE ACKNOWLEDGED 14 GAME LEAGUE CHAMPION (PLAYOFF IF TIE(S)) DESERVES THE NCAA BID.
Enough for this season. But I’ll be back again next year and will always be rooting for the tourney 4 seed (unless my Tigers are #1) until enough others have felt the sting of playing an entire season to win the Championship, only to be relegated to a half butt post season tournament
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-25-23 12:57 PM - Post#350197
In response to Tiger69
GG: Please read my comments carefully. I AM NOT AGAINST THE D@MN TOURNEY, OR ANY OF THE OTHER GROWING NUMBER OF POST SEASON TOURNAMENTS IF THE TEAMS ARE OFFERED BIDS AND THE PLAYERS WISH TO PLAY!!! I SIMPLY BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THE ACKNOWLEDGED 14 GAME LEAGUE CHAMPION (PLAYOFF IF TIE(S)) DESERVES THE NCAA BID.
Enough for this season. But I’ll be back again next year and will always be rooting for the tourney 4 seed (unless my Tigers are #1) until enough others have felt the sting of playing an entire season to win the Championship, only to be relegated to a half butt post season tournament
Given that there is no point of a tournament if the winner isn't going to go to the NCAA, it's hard to read your sentiments as being congruent with each other.
But if Henry Fonda can convince 11 of his fellow jurors to vote "not guilty," I'm sure you can easily convince the rest of the world why the tournament champion should go to the NIT.
Best of luck.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-25-23 01:52 PM - Post#350198
In response to Tiger69
It is interesting—I also root for the #4 seed all things being equal. However, that is part of why I like the tournament. I like seeing upsets. It’s why the first couple rounds of the NCAA tournament is my favorite few days in the sports season. I’m always going to root for the underdog unless my team is playing.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-25-23 05:32 PM - Post#350201
In response to Go Green
Twelve Angry Men? Great flick!
Proposed prize for tourney winners if they don’t want the NIT as a consolation prize: free pizza for a year?
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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01-25-23 08:00 PM - Post#350202
In response to Tiger69
The value and fairness of a post season tournament to determine who goes to the NCAAs has been discussed on these boards ad nauseum for years. It is also not unique to the Ivy League nor is it a recent happening. Nor has it just been argued back and forth between fans. Many of you may already know this, if so forgive me for rehashing yesterday's news. BTW, how did a thread about Caden Pearce being ROW transform into ILT talk again?
Anyway, believe it or not but a school actually left a high-profile conference once over disagreements like what has been debated here. Way back when, the ACC was but a handful of conferences to hold a post season tournament to determine their conference representative in the dance. And yes, EVERYONE was a one bid conference then. In the late 60s and early 70s South Carolina had some really good teams. Often ranked in the top 5. Yet they were upset in the ACC tournament every year. They were PO'd that numerous independents received at large bids while they had to stay home despite having inarguably better teams. It led to the gamecocks withdrawing from the ACC thinking they were a lock to get into the tournament as an at large. What they apparently didn't realize was that they were good because of the quality of the recruits, many of whom were from the Long Island area, they attracted because they wanted to play in the ACC. With their withdrawal, that pipeline dried up rapidly.
Obviously, once the NCAA field was expanded and all power conferences received multiple bids, and money began to dictate almost everything, all of this became a moot point. I realize there were other factors involved in South Carolina's withdrawal, but basketball was a large part.
My point is Ivy basketball fans are not the only, or the first group, to be upset with the regular season champion not going to the tournament if they lost in the post season tournament. For what it's worth, I'm not crazy about the ILT and as a Princeton fan, no I don't think the Tigers got screwed last year. Everyone knows going in how it works. Bellyaching after you lose is about as lame as it gets. If the Tiger women don't win the regular season title this year, I'm not going to take a deep breath and say, thank God for the ILT. For all but the regular season champ, the ILT is a mulligan and I've never liked mulligans. Even when I played golf.
I wonder what the power conferences would be doing if everybody was still a one bid league? Hmmmmm.....
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-25-23 11:21 PM - Post#350217
In response to SecS3
I remember when the Pac-10 or 12 didn't have a tournament (up through 1985-86, then adopted one, then dropped it in 1990 because it was a terrible idea, and didn't go back to having one until 2002. It struggled with attendance and went through multiple formats for quite a while. Probably they would be better off without a tourney as well, though for very different reasons from the Ivy League.
As for ToothlessTiger's "up with people" attitude toward the status quo, I'm sorry if something that has proven not to be what it was promised to be hasn't achieved universal acclaim. It will continue to be an own goal as long as the current circumstances of college basketball persist.
The only good part of it is that with the new sparse schedule in the regular season, it feels like the teams don't get in enough games to fully develop (even if they are playing as many as before), so a couple of extra games at the end is welcome for that reason at least.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Age: 53
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-26-23 08:42 AM - Post#350221
In response to Tiger69
Twelve Angry Men? Great flick!
Proposed prize for tourney winners if they don’t want the NIT as a consolation prize: free pizza for a year?
Just in case you haven't seen the movie in a while, Fonda's arguments became more and more convincing as he went on.
You're going in the opposite direction by suggesting that the conference champion can turn down the NIT and get free pizza instead.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1352
Reg: 12-08-04
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Pearce is Freshman of week
01-26-23 09:24 AM - Post#350223
In response to Go Green
OT, but it is frequently pointed out (by actual lawyers and judges, like Justice Sotomayor) that most of Juror #8's (Fonda) arguments are completely outside what is allowed in such a setting and thus totally unrealistic. In other words, like many arguments advanced in favor of the ILT, fabulous fiction.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 380
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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01-27-23 02:56 PM - Post#350306
In response to ToothlessTiger
During my time on campus in the early 80s, I distinctly recall some letters to the Prince and/or PAW claiming that co-education was still "an experiment", as though the decision to let woman defile the campus by their mere presence would be reversed. (Having married an alumna, I found that thinking especially galling!)
I was long in favor of the 14-game tournament, but the ILT is here, and it's here to stay. If you want to press for change, focus on modifying that format to one that gives more meaning to the regular season. Example: Stretch the tourney to 3 days and do 1 of the following
If you keep the tournament at 4 teams, have 4 play 3 on Friday, winner vs 2 Saturday, winner vs 1 Sunday.
Or if willing to expand to 5 teams, play 5-2 and 4-3 Friday, winners meet Saturday, winner vs. 1 Sunday.
Note for those focused on wanting to require being in the Top 4 to get in: I hear you. But the Men's Lacrosse tournament takes 4 of 7 teams (57%). Taking 5 of 8 (62.5%) wouldn't be that far off from the standard established by Lacrosse before the hoops tournament was created.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4008
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-27-23 08:38 PM - Post#350322
In response to Tiger84
Put all 8 in, play the first game at the higher seed, final 4 at a neutral site.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 445
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-13-23 03:01 PM - Post#351547
In response to Old Bear
He wins again. Surprising this week,
but not as much as Tosan not making the honor roll.
This is a very strange selection process.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Pearce is Freshman of week
02-13-23 08:12 PM - Post#351566
In response to LocalTiger
Pierce has been our second most valuable player this season thanks to his rebounding, defense and low TO rate. Can't wait to see what he can add scoring-wise in a post-Tosan world.
At 6'6", I'd like to see Caden develop a reliable midrange jumper. 3pt fake, couple dribbles, pull-up from 15 feet.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
02-14-23 08:06 PM - Post#351618
In response to gokinsmen
MH will not ever have players routinely shooting mid-range jumpers. A ticket to the bench.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
02-15-23 07:25 AM - Post#351628
In response to SRP
He should spend the summer at the Steph Curry 3-ball camp. If only there were such a thing.
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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Re: Pearce is Freshman of week
02-15-23 09:55 PM - Post#351695
In response to SRP
They should. Kaitlyn Chen does it all the
time and is very effective.
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