10Q
Professor
Posts: 23416
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-31-23 03:09 PM - Post#358678
Super psyched for the opener. I’ve already printed my rollout for John Jay. Who’s going?
Smoke the Jays!!
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: John Jay
10-31-23 04:33 PM - Post#358682
In response to 10Q
Too far away for me to go, but it is on ESPN plus. For insight on what to expect from Penn, look at the DP online today. Coach is very high on Cam Thrower. Based on the article, I expectThrower, Smith, Nick, Clark, and Laz to be in at the start, and Holland soon thereafter.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23416
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-31-23 05:32 PM - Post#358683
In response to pennsive
Actually, they’re the bloodhounds.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-31-23 05:52 PM - Post#358684
In response to 10Q
I'm going to assume 10Q that you are being sarcastic, as not even the John Jay players are psyched about whatever the heck John Jay is.
Add this to the list of reasons why this is sadly, the least excited I've been for a Penn basketball season in a very long time.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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10-31-23 07:46 PM - Post#358685
In response to Mike Porter
Jon Jay is switching from baseball to basketball and added an h to his first name?
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: John Jay
10-31-23 09:32 PM - Post#358686
In response to pennsive
I am hoping to see a more egalitarian and less predictable offense. Who knows what the defense will look like.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23416
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-01-23 07:55 AM - Post#358688
In response to Mike Porter
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. I am not excited about this team, but you never know. Keeping the faith, for now.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-01-23 12:33 PM - Post#358691
In response to 10Q
In yesterday's DP article, SD gives strong hints about what went wrong last year and the steps he has taken to remediate it. Hopefully, our faith will be rewarded, and with that, reason for renewed loyalty.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-01-23 01:11 PM - Post#358692
In response to pennsive
I didn't see where he said why it went wrong--to the contrary, he said that featuring getting the ball to Dingle was their best chance to win. It went wrong in the locker room at Princeton with a 17 point lead, and that's on the coach.
As for this year, is he serious when he says that Slajchert is the best guard in the league and Spinoso the best big man? They both have had their moments but last year both of them did not play up to expectations.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-01-23 01:26 PM - Post#358693
In response to palestra38
I didn't see where he said why it went wrong--to the contrary, he said that featuring getting the ball to Dingle was their best chance to win. It went wrong in the locker room at Princeton with a 17 point lead, and that's on the coach.
As for this year, is he serious when he says that Slajchert is the best guard in the league and Spinoso the best big man? They both have had their moments but last year both of them did not play up to expectations.
Hard, hard agree with all of the above.
Further, nothing in there made me any more confident about potential outcomes for this year. As a coach of course he is going to say their goal is a championship and they aren't "far off"...
It makes sense the team will have to share the ball more because they don't have anyone as good as Jordan Dingle. And Donahue was clear in saying last year his strategy was to get Dingle the ball.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-01-23 10:21 PM - Post#358696
In response to Mike Porter
Probably should post a new topic but here is a season preview. The lack of forced turnovers is interesting to me.
https://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/...
I am looking forward to the season as there seems a group of freshmen and sophomores that could be fun to watch grow together.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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11-03-23 01:59 PM - Post#358736
In response to OldBig5
This weekend I'll stop by the John Jay dining hall at Columbia to pump myself up for the game.
Will try to remember not to blink while passing by the John Jay campus.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-03-23 02:08 PM - Post#358737
In response to TheLine
Probably as competitive a game if Penn played the John Jay Hall intramural team---in law school I played intramural football in front of John Jay (often in the mud) and there were ferocious battles.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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11-03-23 02:13 PM - Post#358738
In response to palestra38
Isn't criminal justice John Jay's specialty major?
I'd expect them to be physical and athletic, perhaps lacking height and finesse.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-03-23 02:33 PM - Post#358739
In response to TheLine
I think that is more the service academies than John Jay.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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John Jay
11-03-23 03:23 PM - Post#358741
In response to palestra38
Was thinking maybe like service academics but a few pegs down.
Which seems to be mostly the case - their top players are all guards, with a couple of taller guys getting limited minutes.
https://johnjayathletics.com/sports/mens-basketbal ...
And a few pegs down only if the pegs are spaced generously apart. 6-20 last year at DIII.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: John Jay
11-03-23 03:42 PM - Post#358742
In response to TheLine
...and Princeton opens with Rutgers on a neutral court.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4000
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-03-23 05:11 PM - Post#358743
In response to palestra38
What's the spread on the JJ game?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-03-23 05:22 PM - Post#358744
In response to Old Bear
What's the spread on the JJ game?
It's dynomite.
Don't touch it.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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11-03-23 05:26 PM - Post#358745
In response to penn nation
Don't know, but top three people who attended John Jay are Jimmy Iovine, Eric Adams, and Jack Caulfield.
Eric graduated, Jimmy dropped out, not sure whether Jack graduated or transferred.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-06-23 06:55 PM - Post#358794
In response to TheLine
6PM start for those of us (like me) not paying attention!
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 07:02 PM - Post#358795
In response to 91Quake
Rousing Penn ad to start the broadcast.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 07:04 PM - Post#358796
In response to Penndemonium
I See Slajchert, Spinonso, Perkins, Holland, and Thrower to start (I think).
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 07:04 PM - Post#358797
In response to Penndemonium
First 3 scores: Spinoso, Perkins, and Thrower.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23416
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-06-23 07:12 PM - Post#358799
In response to Penndemonium
Augie Gerheart is in the house!
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-06-23 07:20 PM - Post#358800
In response to 10Q
Thrower needs to save some of those makes!
Defense will determine how this team will do this year.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 07:27 PM - Post#358801
In response to Penndemonium
Perkins looking like a keeper.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-06-23 07:38 PM - Post#358802
In response to Penndemonium
Perkins looking like a keeper.
Yes he does although I missed the beginning. Quick and seems a decent shot.
Turned it on with Penn up 30-9 just in time to see Polonowski miss three threes and give up an and one on the other end. But now things have settled down.
It's sexist but Megan Birdsong is pleasing to my old eyes. And I am sure she will be a competent sidelibne reporter also.
Assume Bucknell will be much more of a test.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-06-23 07:40 PM - Post#358803
In response to 91Quake
Defense will determine how this team will do this year.
Yes, unfortunately there are some signs against this lower level competition that it will be s struggle. I think the solution is playing a lot of guys and keeping the pressure on. Might give up some free throws but so be it.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-06-23 07:42 PM - Post#358804
In response to OldBig5
Looked it up and Bucknell is picked near or at the bottom of the Patriot League. John Griffin III is their new coach.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 07:44 PM - Post#358806
In response to Penndemonium
The Palestra looks pretty empty. It's pretty quiet here on this board too.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-06-23 07:46 PM - Post#358807
In response to Penndemonium
The Palestra looks pretty empty. It's pretty quiet here on this board too.
Who could have predicted that John Jay would not be a good draw.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-06-23 08:08 PM - Post#358809
In response to OldBig5
[
Who could have predicted that John Jay would not be a good draw.
Can't draw--maybe that's why JJ didn't sign the Declaration of Independence.
I do Bar Mitzvahs, too.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-06-23 08:11 PM - Post#358810
In response to penn nation
[
Who could have predicted that John Jay would not be a good draw.
Can't draw--maybe that's why JJ didn't sign the Declaration of Independence.
I do Bar Mitzvahs, too.
Did not know that. About JJ. Or you.
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20Penn14
Senior
Posts: 364
Reg: 02-26-12
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11-06-23 08:48 PM - Post#358814
In response to Penndemonium
Having the band and students behind the visiting basket really makes the Penn side look empty on TV
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 70
Reg: 02-09-05
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11-06-23 09:07 PM - Post#358817
In response to 20Penn14
For what it’s worth: Holland 7-7 with 16 pts in 16 minutes and Laz 4-4
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-06-23 09:12 PM - Post#358818
In response to OldBig5
Player and team observations...
Perkins - strong and confident for a Freshman. Made several threes and already one of our more impactful players. He has an upperclassman body. It would be NBA-like if he gets a bit more chiseled. Newcomer of the year.
Slajchert - Looks a lot like last year, but shows a bit more leadership and physical strength. His 3 pt shot looks slightly more grooved. Clearly our team leader. Wasn't under much pressure today.
Spinoso - Looks a bit stronger and more confident than last year, but still has a pretty rough time finishing from point blank. His finishes seem to hit the back of the rim a bit too hard for a friendly roll. That guy really needs to practice lofting/rolling the ball off his fingers. He would be a killer if he could make the baby hook or 5 foot lofted layup off the glass. He's still our most important defensive anchor.
Gerhart - Really looks like Spinoso of the future for us. Upperclassman physicality, good hustle, and pretty good defense. He looks like he could be a strong rebounder for us and develop on offense in the future. I'd like to see him move more explosively off-the ball on offense and generally on defense. Good work on boxing out, setting screens, and making passes. He made a great cut off the pick and roll in the second half for a slam too.
Thrower - Looks good on offense, not great on defense yet. Lots of range and a nice looking shot. Can become a real player. Would like to see him in higher gear on defense. He looked like a bit of a statue on defense.
Walter - Some nice minutes. Good hustle and movement, and good effort on defense. Seemed to generally make the right play at a given time. Will be a good role player for us. Would like to see him develop more strength and a faster clock speed (like Laz).
Polonowski - a bit early to judge, but I could see him developing into a nice player. Good motor on defense, but can still step up his speed a bit more. Will need to develop some more utility on offense.
McMullen - made a good fast drive to the hoop, but his shot doesn't look like one we could rely on.
Holland - a few good moments, and has a balance of size, speed, and defensive potential that we will need. Not imposing himself, but definitely contributing.
Smith - a bit stronger and more aggressive this year. A good contributor whenever he's on the floor. Even handled the ball a bit in the last few minutes of the game, and broke the pressure.
Laz - as always, very active when he is on the court. That put him in touch for some nice cutbacks and a dunk. He always looks alert and makes a lot of cuts. Always at work for a rebound, even before a shot goes up. Some of our other players could learn from watching his activity level on tape.
Ubochi - wow he is tall and long. I loved that he kept his whole wingspan up on defense the whole time. That is such a deterrent for the other team. The team switched to zone as soon as he came in, and he occupies a lot of space in the middle. I liked his hustle for rebounds, though he needs to develop his position sooner and have a bit more physical authority in cleaning out the paint earlier. He hustled to box out, but only after he saw the ball in the air. He would be very valuable to us if he continuously pushes people off the blocks. He is a potential shot-blocking menace.
Chambers - hit the cheesesteak 3 pointer!
Hsu - love his motor in the few minutes. Very twitchy movement. Would love to see more of our players develop that.
Would have liked to see Brown. Was he injured?
This was a bit too much of a blowout to really assess our team. The team moved the ball very quickly, but that was partly because of the big advantage they had. It will be interesting to see how this team operates in more patient half-court sets. It was hilarious to watch the Freshman trying to figure out the Red and Blue arm movement. Loved the joyful water bottle shower of Gerhart during the post-game interview!
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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John Jay
11-06-23 11:01 PM - Post#358832
In response to Penndemonium
According to the ESPN box score, attendance was an abysmal 636.
I saw the last eight minutes of the first half and the rest of the game. Nice to see such efficiency from Holland. Perkins looked good, if a little bit out of control at times. Gerhart and Walter look like they've got some skills, though both need to get stronger. I am intrigued by Ubochi and hope he fights his way into the rotation. Thrower still needs to slow down and let the game come to him.
This is a young team that doesn't have a lot of game experience. I think they're going to be inconsistent, but there's potential.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 11-06-23 11:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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John Jay
11-07-23 02:56 AM - Post#358840
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Ubochi was active blocking or altering shots. It pulled him out of position a few times from rebounding. He needs to practice clearing out the paint even before the shot goes up. He also needs to develop his base so he can push people with more force and get loose balls without bending at the waist. He was in the mix for some rebounds where he just didn't occupy quite enough space. With his wingspan, he could be a monster on the boards.
I actually liked Gerhart quite a bit, considering this was his first game as a Quaker freshman. He looked as good as any Freshman big that I can remember. The competition was definitely a factor.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-07-23 09:09 AM - Post#358848
In response to Penndemonium
City of Basketball Love has a good recap and says Sam Brown had a sprained ankle:
https://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/...
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-07-23 11:10 AM - Post#358860
In response to 91Quake
The starters were 14-25 (56%) from two, 8-15 (53%) from three, and 7-9 (78%) from the line.
Holland looks like a Monroe who can finish.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: John Jay
11-07-23 02:27 PM - Post#358867
In response to Penndemonium
Not to nitpick, but did Gerhart look better than AJ Brodeur? I don’t see how that could be the case (though it would be good news, obviously).
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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Re: John Jay
11-07-23 02:59 PM - Post#358871
In response to SomeGuy
who said that?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-07-23 05:16 PM - Post#358879
In response to 91Quake
My takeaway is that we have a good core of young players who will be able to compete in the future. There are some players who have potential as Ivy stars, but none are ordained. The path to a future Ivy championship is either Donahue recruiting some consecutive strong classes behind them or else the young core developing both individually and as a group that executes really well as a Donahue type of team.
It was a good sign that the team didn't play down to their level of competition.
I went and re-watched Cam Thrower's old high school tapes to try to picture what type of player he will be. He looked amazing in the game after his first few shots. He had a quick release and dropped in threes calmly with range. He looked a bit slow on defense to me and didn't put much pressure on the other team off the drive. He seems to be a very good athlete, but not quite explosive enough to dominate physically. To compete in Div. I, I think he will need another dimension to his game - creating dribble pressure and playmaking for the team. He is somewhat like Jonah Charles at this moment.
I think Sam Brown has some of those tools to be constantly testing a defense and finding efficient ways to beat pressure and create for the team. He may play a bigger role for the team.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-07-23 06:05 PM - Post#358881
In response to Penndemonium
There are some players who have potential as Ivy stars, but none are ordained.
Perhaps Penn should start a Divinity School.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-07-23 06:37 PM - Post#358886
In response to penn nation
Reserving judgement until I see how they play against other D1 players, but Holland again reminded me how annoyed I was he didn’t play more last year (Thrower I felt could have played more too), and the freshman starting with Perkins show promise (Perkins really stood out as smooth and strong for a frosh). Let’s see how it goes against Bucknell tomorrow.
Does anyone know who we scrimmaged and what the results were?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: John Jay
11-07-23 09:00 PM - Post#358895
In response to yoyo
Penndemonium said Gerhart looked as good as as any freshman big he could remember. Given that AJ was of recent vintage, that surprised me.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: John Jay
11-07-23 11:18 PM - Post#358898
In response to SomeGuy
Penndemonium said Gerhart looked as good as as any freshman big he could remember. Given that AJ was of recent vintage, that surprised me.
Yeah, my guess is that Penndemonium forgot AJ. Gerhart looked promising against smaller D3 kids, but wasn't in same zip code as AJ. I just checked back, AJ scored 23 points on 11-14 shooting with 11 rebounds against Robert Morris (D1) in his first game.
Not a knock against Gerhart who I thought looked good coming off the bench in his first game as a frosh. Hope he will be a good one. AJ was just THAT good right out of the gate.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-08-23 03:47 AM - Post#358901
In response to Mike Porter
Agreed that I wasn't thinking of AJ.
He did remind me of Adam Chubb as an upperclassman. I think he will be better than Chubb at the end of the day. Somehow Chubb didn't have a great Penn career, even though he was a monster in the Jersey Shore league and also played very well in Europe. I think Dunphy's coaching style was a bit restrictive for Chubb, who would have been better in a fast break and open court game.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-08-23 03:52 AM - Post#358902
In response to Mike Porter
Agreed that I wasn't thinking of AJ.
He did remind me of Adam Chubb as an upperclassman. I think he will be better than Chubb at the end of the day. Somehow Chubb didn't have a great Penn career, even though he was a monster in the Jersey Shore league and also played very well in Europe. I think Dunphy's coaching style was a bit restrictive for Chubb, who would have been better in a fast break and open court game.
I might have exaggerated there. I don't remember Ugonna's first game anymore. I don't remember Zoller's. I do remember AJ's very impressive first game.
Nonetheless, Gerhart looked like he belonged out there.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1173
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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11-08-23 02:32 PM - Post#358918
In response to Penndemonium
I don't remember Ugonna's first game anymore.
I do. He put up 14 points in limited minutes against Kentucky on national TV. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-08-23 03:25 PM - Post#358919
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
The more incredible thing about game was that Klatsky, not Ugonna, was the first guy off the bench.
I don't remember Ugonna's first game anymore.
I do. He put up 14 points in limited minutes against Kentucky on national TV. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: John Jay
11-09-23 10:00 AM - Post#358958
In response to SomeGuy
Penndemonium said Gerhart looked as good as as any freshman big he could remember. Given that AJ was of recent vintage, that surprised me.
I remember Jordan Dingle’s first game. He scored 24 points at Alabama, including the game winner in the closing seconds, at which point I knew he was going to be something special.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 70
Reg: 02-09-05
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11-09-23 11:00 AM - Post#358959
In response to 13otto
I remember Jordan Dingle’s first game. He scored 24 points at Alabama, including the game winner in the closing seconds,
I thought it was 27. I could well be wrong but I seem to recall that Lucas Monroe had 12. In fact that could have been the best offensive game of his career given the opponent. Perkins is not the scorer that Dingle was but he does more on the court than I remember Jordan doing out of the box. However, Tyler’s effectiveness against the likes of John Jay and Bucknell is not a basis for comparison. Let’s wait to see what happens against St Joe and ‘Nova before making any assessment.
I also thought the comparison of Gerhart to Chubb was a good one. Based on what He has looked like so far (again, he hasn’t faced top competition yet) I think there is reason to believe that he has the potential to be better than Chubb or Geoff Owens (Not a knock on those two but based on the small sample available, I think Gerhart could be very, very good .
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-09-23 12:03 PM - Post#358961
In response to slane
It was 24:
https://www.google.com/search?q=penn-alabama +box+s...
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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John Jay
11-09-23 02:34 PM - Post#358962
In response to palestra38
Gerhart is stronger and more skilled than most forwards we get - most of ours are projects on one side of the ledger or the other. For example, Max Rothschild turned into a very good all around forward for us by his senior year, but he was skilled but skinny back then.
Gerhart looked a bit smaller and slower against Bucknell than John Jay. That is not surprising. I would like to see him moving with more burst off the ball on his cuts (study Laz and Walter) and imposing himself a bit more physically (study Spinoso), but he is all-around very good and ahead of schedule for a Freshman big man.
He already seems like a competent free throw shooter (based on the eye test), which is a huge positive.
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