Quake Show
Junior
Posts: 218
Reg: 03-04-20
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11-10-23 10:54 PM - Post#359012
In response to Quake Show
Meanwhile, Yale at #11 Gonzaga is shaping up to be an incredible game. 43-40 Zags with 1:13 left in the first.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-10-23 11:18 PM - Post#359016
In response to Quake Show
That killer offensive rebound for St. joes on the 1 and 1 was weird. Spinoso appeared to take his eye off his man and boxed out the closest body — who turned out to be thrower, I believe. Just an instance of Spinoso turning to look at the ball a beat too soon.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-10-23 11:22 PM - Post#359019
In response to SomeGuy
Spinoso really, really needs to pull his noggin out of the orifice in which he’s buried it to start the season.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-11-23 04:30 PM - Post#359042
In response to Chip Bayers
I think he’ll be fine. Guys make mistakes, have bad stretches, etc. How you respond defines you. I still think this is ultimately Clark and Nick’s team (in a good way). As teams continue to realize the other three spots on the floor can hurt them too, I think you’ll see things start to get easier for Spinoso. I think you already saw it last night, with st Joe’s focusing on Perkins rather than Clark (at their peril).
More general positives of last night. Rebounding continues to be a revelation. This is an area where Perkins and Thrower appear to be a big improvement over Dingle, at least so far. Great to see us win the boards against a tougher opponent. The team also showed some serious grit coming back. With a young team, we could have folded. We didn’t. And finally, defense. It’s early, but we lost last night due to the offense. This is a surprise and a reversal from the last couple of years. Again, surprising to lose Monroe and Martz and have that be the case. But so far we are defending well. That Holland/Laz/Walter rotation may be key. Kind of like rotating defensive linemen — we’re keeping the active energy guys fresh, and almost always have one on the floor.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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St. Joes
11-11-23 05:12 PM - Post#359045
In response to SomeGuy
I thought youth and lack of game experience were what contributed most to the loss. St. Joe's guards were more experienced, quicker and more decisive than Perkins and Thrower, both of whom were out of rhythm for most of the game. Perkins made some good plays in our second half run.
Overall, I thought the Hawks just outmuscled us. Spinoso had to deal with a 7', 285 lb force of nature in the post. Not an easy task, even when you're 6'9" and 240 lbs. Gerhart did the best he could off the bench, but he looked overmatched. The fact that no one other than Slajchert managed to get to double figures in scoring was problematic.
Coming back from 19 down, getting to within two possessions showed me something. I am also encouraged to see that the team didn't fold.
I hope they continue to get better.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 11-11-23 05:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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St. Joes
11-11-23 05:50 PM - Post#359046
In response to Quake Show
I watched the first half live, but had to finish the second half on replay.
Random Observations:
- Best game I've seen from Slajchert, I think. He was controlled, shot the ball well, and handled the pressure well. He's not the best assist PG ever, but he is strong with ball-handling and scoring.
- Thrower showed me something today. Even though he didn't shoot well, turned ball the over several times, and made defensive mistakes... he played a bit more aggressively and showed he could penetrate and may eventually provide more ball-handling. I wasn't sure what he had in his toolset from the other games. Now I can see a path for him. His decision-making and game feel will need to improve a lot, but at least he had a motor today. He will need to hit his shots, though. Having a strength in shooting is negated when you miss most of your shots!
- Perkins - even though it wasn't a strong game from him, he showed me he can contribute in many different ways. I think a lot of mistakes were due to playing a team that was far bigger and more athletic than the other two. He is a keeper. I'd like to see his mentality shift to being even more active and imposing on the game. ROY.
- Holland. This game, I watched him closely, often ignoring the regular game-flow to just study his off-the-ball play. I saw some good things, and some not so good. I do not fault him for anything - he is playing hard. He doesn't play too forcefully against big men - he doesn't use his lower core well. He has athleticism but isn't playing with guard quick-twitch. I watch Laz and Walter being far more active on their toes, making much better cuts, and being in the right place for rebounds. I am seriously rooting for Holland, but I can't help but wonder if they should get more time - they just put themselves in the right place to make things happen.
- Laz and Walter - see above. They are outperforming my expectations. I can't fully explain it, but they are working hard. I was marveling at Walter's performance yesterday but then he got burned badly at the end by a SJ guard on a switch for one of the critical end-of-game possessions. I'm still happy with him overall. Laz is just engaged all of the time. He is watching and moving throughout. He doesn't hang out on the wing - if he isn't getting the ball, he looks for a moment to cut to the paint. He finds open space, which puts him in position for a feed or else a stray rebound.
- Spinoso - I saw him making many more passes and trying to fill the high post playmaker yesterday. He made far too many turnovers, but his looks were good. Jury is out. His motor is good, he fills space, and he hunts rebounds. I wish a coach would help him groove how the ball leaves his fingers on his short range shots. The ball needs to leave his chosen 1-2 fingers like it's on a rail, rather than just a flip from his hand. He needs to add a little loft, or else use the backboard all of the time. If he starts making more of his bunnies, he will be a much bigger force. That would change the look of our team more than anything else. Having an inside threat would unlock more of the SD offense.
Overall team and Donahue - this team plays hard, never loses its effort, and looked well coached to me. They are playing harder on defense than some of the recent teams over the years, though they need to clamp down even a bit more. I noticed a huge difference between the picks and screens set by St. Joe's and ourselves. The on-the ball defender could not fight their way through a St. Joe's screen. Penn's screener tended to drop off for the dump pass, so the screens really didn't make that much space for the dribbler. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not. St. Joe's never had to switch and was never confused on defense by our screens. I'd also like to see more double-screens and curls for our shooters. Our screens are not putting enough pressure on the other team.
I'm enjoying watching this team.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: St. Joes
11-11-23 05:57 PM - Post#359047
In response to weinhauers_ghost
That St. Joe's big man in the middle was huge. He looked like he had just eaten a few other players before the game. Their PF was also big, athletic, and really good. I don't relish seeing the huge guy for 3 more years.
Our team didn't have perfect composure, but we never completely lost it. They never stopped working and following their game plan.
I thought youth and lack of game experience were what contributed most to the loss. St. Joe's guards were more experienced, quicker and more decisive than Perkins and Thrower, both of whom were out of rhythm for most of the game. Perkins made some good plays in our second half run.
Overall, I thought the Hawks just outmuscled us. Spinoso had to deal with a 7', 285 lb force of nature in the post. Not an easy task, even when you're 6'9" and 240 lbs. Gerhart did the best he could off the bench, but he looked overmatched. The fact that no one other than Slajchert managed to get to double figures in scoring was problematic.
Coming back from 19 down, getting to within two possessions showed me something. I am also encouraged to see that the team didn't fold.
I hope they continue to get better.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-23 02:46 PM - Post#359095
In response to Penndemonium
I was able to watch the game on replay. Glad they didn't fold and put up a fight. My general thoughts:
- Very nice game by Clark, that was vintage Clark and hope we see more of it.
- Spinoso has looked more like fresh version of himself than soph version, we need him to be a scoring threat inside so hope he comes around quickly.
-Perkins was the first time he looked like a freshman, and hopefully a learning experience for him.
-Thrower is going to need his shooting to come around quickly or I think George Smith will take his starting role (his defense continues to be excellent and he is hitting occasional 3).
-Holland I thought put in very good minutes in second half and this shows you the kind of skills you can get if we stick with him. He can hit 3's, he can put the ball on the floor, he draws fouls better than probably anyone on the team, and he hits free throws. He can be a good offensive rebounder. He blocks shots. When he didn't start the second half, when he came in he looked hungry and did a number of things that stood out. I think if the staff can keep him aggressive he will continue to start. I think the overall rotation at the 4 is good though and like all the kids putting in minutes.
Tonight will be much tougher to be honest, Nova is essentially a transfer super team from various squads, so they are very experienced (even if not experienced as a squad together). Probably no better time to get them than early since they are still learning how to play together. Let's see if we can keep it close.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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St. Joes
11-13-23 03:38 PM - Post#359096
In response to Mike Porter
Good point on Smith. He is playing like a vet and clearly settles the team down. It isn't clear whether we need him more as a starter or off the bench, but either way he may take Thrower minutes. His strength, composure, and shooting are needed out there. Thrower is probably the better pure shooter, but is still getting used to getting his shot off at college speed. Right now, I trust Smith to take a big shot a bit more. He gets rebounds, breaks pressure, and may be our most determined player on defense. I loved watching him push against very good screens and pick up players very early on defense.
Villanova will obviously be a tough matchup. If St. Joe's seemed big and athletic, Villanova will be at another level. The key will be crisp ball movement, as their defense will clamp down any time we have the ball being dribbled or held in place. They will be most vulnerable on team defense vs. good passing. I'm guessing they all come in with strong one-on-one capabilities.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-15-23 06:49 PM - Post#359240
In response to Penndemonium
St. Joe might finally be able to give Nova a good game this year and maybe even win. Also they play Princeton in a couple of weeks so that will be one data point for how the Ivy League season might go.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-16-23 02:54 AM - Post#359288
In response to OldBig5
St. Joe's looked more impressive. The guards were good and the forwards were big and athletic. I'd predict a St. Joe's win, rankings notwithstanding. Nova looked like it was still finding its identity.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8269
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-16-23 08:45 AM - Post#359293
In response to Penndemonium
St. Joe's looked more impressive. The guards were good and the forwards were big and athletic. I'd predict a St. Joe's win, rankings notwithstanding. Nova looked like it was still finding its identity.
Essandoko Is still a work in progress but it will be interesting to see how Nova tries to matchup with him.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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11-16-23 10:27 PM - Post#359326
In response to Streamers
St. Joe's looked more impressive. The guards were good and the forwards were big and athletic. I'd predict a St. Joe's win, rankings notwithstanding. Nova looked like it was still finding its identity.
Essandoko Is still a work in progress but it will be interesting to see how Nova tries to matchup with him.
Every time a Penn player bounced off of him I thought "Oh Christ".
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