palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32916
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-30-23 12:06 PM - Post#360974
Penn a 26.5 point dog. Hope we’re getting paid a lot for this one
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barryw
Sophomore
Posts: 122
Age: 78
Reg: 05-05-10
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12-30-23 01:13 PM - Post#360976
In response to palestra38
Why was this game or Auburn even scheduled? Was it done before Dingle transferred? If we win it would be the biggest upset in a long time.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8355
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-30-23 02:26 PM - Post#360979
In response to barryw
SD feels this is good prep for the Ivy season; better than a D3 romp... and then there's the $$ and who knew Houston would be this good when they scheduled it. Have to believe Ira Bowman had something to do with the Auburn game.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-30-23 03:01 PM - Post#360980
In response to barryw
I assume the kids love playing these types of games. That’s probably the biggest reason we schedule these. I don’t have any problem with it at all. We’ve already got one win over a ranked team this year. Let’s go get another one! Or at least cover.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-30-23 04:56 PM - Post#360999
In response to SomeGuy
Yeah, you play D1 basketball to at least experience playing against the best. Every season has to have a game like this if the schedule gods allow it. I think this type of game actually sets up positively in that the other team probably doesn't know our team's offense and will need to deal with its discipline. That said, coming off a long break and the spread in team ranking does not set up well.
Will be interesting to watch!
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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12-30-23 08:24 PM - Post#361015
In response to Penndemonium
Not interesting yet
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-30-23 08:26 PM - Post#361017
In response to SomeGuy
I assume the kids love playing these types of games. That’s probably the biggest reason we schedule these. I don’t have any problem with it at all. We’ve already got one win over a ranked team this year. Let’s go get another one! Or at least cover.
I’m thinking the kids are not loving playing this game, sure doesn’t look like it. I’m in favor of these games, but yeah this is going to be a long game.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-30-23 09:08 PM - Post#361020
In response to Mike Porter
Hard to overstate how good Houston is defensively. Not only #1 D in KenPom, but #1 in five of the individual D.
The biggest issue so far though is losing Slajchert 2 minutes in to what looks like a serious ankle sprain with league play only 7 days away.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-30-23 10:07 PM - Post#361022
In response to Chip Bayers
Hard to overstate how good Houston is defensively. Not only #1 D in KenPom, but #1 in five of the individual D.
The biggest issue so far though is losing Slajchert 2 minutes in to what looks like a serious ankle sprain with league play only 7 days away.
Yes, Houston is a very, very good team and this was a disaster. I stopped watching shortly after he got injured and it was 18-0. No sense wasting time the rest of the evening. Hope the ankle sprain isn’t as bad as it looked (especially hope it isn’t a high ankle sprain). While I approve of playing a top schedule, I don’t think the team learn anything today. Hopefully the Yales and Princeton’s of the world do feel less athletic and shorter after this at least.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-30-23 10:08 PM - Post#361023
In response to Chip Bayers
This may have been the ugliest loss of the post-Allen era. I can't think of anything positive to say about the way the game played out.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Penn-Houston
12-30-23 11:19 PM - Post#361026
In response to weinhauers_ghost
(That should have been #1 in five of the individual D categories):
Effective FG%
TO%
2-point %
Block %
Steal %
They’re 10th in 3-Pt. % D.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 12-30-23 11:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Penn-Houston
12-30-23 11:26 PM - Post#361028
In response to Chip Bayers
Surely their defensive metrics improved after this debacle.
It was never competitive. Even the loss to Kentucky was competitive.
The one thing I have to question is the coaching staff's reluctance to put more size on the floor. It was obvious three minutes into the game that playing four out with Spinoso as the only big wasn't going to work, and then Spinoso picked up his second foul, effectively neutering him as a defender.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 12-30-23 11:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32916
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Penn-Houston
12-30-23 11:45 PM - Post#361030
In response to weinhauers_ghost
It was a self-sacrifice from the start. No chance to be competitive. Thankfully I did not watch, even though I have spent 40+years living for Penn Basketball. Things have to change
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1122
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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12-30-23 11:49 PM - Post#361031
In response to palestra38
We are reminded of the two levels of college basketball, professional and amateur. There is no going back.
Let's hope that ?Clark recovers in time for the Amateur section of the schedule.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Penn-Houston
12-31-23 08:46 AM - Post#361036
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I thought our best stretches were when we played small, actually. We had a competitive stretch late in the first half with no big at all — just Laz and Holland and 3 smaller guards. That and the start of the second half with McMullen playing for Slajchert were our best stretches, I think.
The first 10 minutes and the last 10 were . . . challenging.
Clark’s injury really takes a game that would otherwise just be a shrug and makes it sting. Hope it isn’t as bad as it looked.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Penn-Houston
12-31-23 09:54 AM - Post#361039
In response to SomeGuy
Yeah, the first 10 minutes were excruciating. It was clear that Houston had paid attention to the scouting report and the video, because they were able to take away everything we were trying to do offensively. Combine that with their relentless rebounding at both ends of the floor, and it was obvious that we were in deep trouble.
Very different from the Kentucky game.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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12-31-23 04:03 PM - Post#361063
In response to weinhauers_ghost
The Kansas-Houston games this season will be epic.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-31-23 04:59 PM - Post#361065
In response to SRP
You know, even getting walloped is an experience. Maybe not for their development as a basketball team, but personally. That is the true essence of sports. I would happily get walloped by LBJ, Steph Curry, Tom Brady, Lionel Messi, Roger Federer, and others. Maybe I'd rather not get walloped by Tyson Fury. In any case, every athlete worth their salt wants a chance to compete against the best. I'd bet they'd happily play against the Denver Nuggets too. Getting crushed was part of the experience. There is heartbreak for every team except one at the end of the season. This one cost the team nothing and was a wake up call for the rest of the season.
I just hope this game didn't cost us Slajchert, who was surely our best hope of staying competitive in that game and for the Ivy season. Don't underestimate the impact he could have had against Houston - at least slowing down and maintaining possession to lower the point gap.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 341
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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12-31-23 07:24 PM - Post#361069
In response to Penndemonium
Slajchert is the only relevant story coming out of that game. Penn could lose anybody but him. With him at 100% Penn can compete against any Ivy team.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-01-24 10:52 AM - Post#361082
In response to Penndemonium
When I used to coach youth sports, I would always tell the team that every year I wanted a buzzer beater win, a buzzer beater loss, a blowout win, and a blowout loss. You learn from all of those experiences, even when it feels like you don’t.
At least that’s what I would tell them after we got our butts kicked!
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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01-01-24 03:18 PM - Post#361095
In response to SomeGuy
I've played three former world champions in different sports, and I couldn't make any of them break a sweat. Still, those are the experiences I tell my kids about. Even in getting crushed, it's a part of how we measure ourselves. If you don't want to challenge the best (win or lose), you aren't even a competitor.
The big shame here was having to do it right after a long exam break and losing Slajchert. That's where we lost some of the best parts of the experience. You want to put your best foot forward when you have this opportunity.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-01-24 03:23 PM - Post#361096
In response to SomeGuy
Playing what could be the best team in the country will and did expose our weaknesses. What concerns me is that one of the announcers stated his surprise with how fundamentally unsound was our inability to block out their rebounders from second and third chance baskets. The other concern was our inability to handle
pressure from double teams, causing turnover after turnover. If these deficits were just a function of playing Houston and losing Clark, that would be one thing, but we have seen a re- run of this movie post Dunphy way too many times when playing Yale and Princeton as well.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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01-01-24 03:35 PM - Post#361097
In response to pennsive
The rebounding is the problem to me, in that it is something curable to a degree. They lack the size and athleticism to be dominant rebounders, but they certainly could improve meaningfully with effort and fundamentals. Our 1991-1995 teams lacked size, but they were the hardest working rebounders I saw at Penn. Players like Barry Pierce, Andy Baratta, Eric Moore, Vince Curran, Shawn Trice, Tim Krug, and more - were typically rebounding underdogs - but worked for EVERY inch in the paint. Each used their hips and butt first. Our team rebounding was good in spite of the size and athleticism differential in out-of-conference games. We never lost rebounds because people were watching the ball. They always cleared out their opponent from the point to the degree possible.
This team does better in that respect than some of the recent Penn teams, but most seem to work for position with their upper body. That is nowhere near enough given their disparities.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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01-01-24 11:34 PM - Post#361110
In response to SomeGuy
One other thing - the Pennathletics article said that Laz is from Texas, so this was his home game. He played a season high 22 minutes. It's too bad it was such a lopsided score, but I'm glad he got to play in Texas.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Penn-Houston
01-02-24 07:15 PM - Post#361138
In response to Penndemonium
Even after the lopsided rebound numbers in thst game, they’re still a top 75 team in offensive rebound %. Defensive boards could use some improvement, where they’re only just inside the top 150, but again, that’s after the horrible skew added Saturday.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 01-02-24 07:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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