Joe.Yemly
Freshman
Posts: 27
Age: 38
Reg: 03-08-17
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01-21-24 11:25 AM - Post#361943
What has been the highlight of the men's program since McLaughlin took over? I liked the hire at the time, but goodness we just seem stuck in the mud. It's going to be difficult to get to 10 wins this season - should not be acceptable.
Just don't seem to be doing anything well.
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Greenhorn
Senior
Posts: 321
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-21-24 07:40 PM - Post#361979
In response to Joe.Yemly
we're pretty good at losing.
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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01-21-24 09:12 PM - Post#361983
In response to Greenhorn
Beating two top 100 teams in Princeton and Yale last season wasn't too bad.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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01-21-24 09:40 PM - Post#361984
In response to Greenhorn
I feel bad for the guys. It's hard on their psyche to suffer so many losses. What does the inflection point look like before change comes to Dartmouth basketball?
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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01-22-24 02:09 AM - Post#361989
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
They showed promise last year. This year just feels lackluster and desultory. It's frustrating to be a program that hasn't won a league title since 1960, and hasn't been able to qualify for the league's postseason tournament since its inception. What's the pitch to players with options?
I hope McLaughlin can turn things around; the biggest loser if this season ends with his departure might be Hanover High School, whose soccer and basketball teams have been greatly buoyed by his kids' athletic prowess.
I wonder if Dartmouth's recruiting tactics should focus more on finding kids from small towns and rural settings, who might choose a place like Dartmouth over more urban Ivies.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 07:40 AM - Post#361992
In response to Joe.Yemly
The fact is Dartmouth MBB's brand is being bad at basketball. McLaughlin is no worse than the past several coaches from a record perspective. It is well known that Dartmouth's admissions department is now, and has been, one of the last cooperative in the Ivys so any coach starts with one hand tied behind his back.
No season over .500 this century. Read that again.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 10:36 AM - Post#361998
In response to Joe.Yemly
What has been the highlight of the men's program since McLaughlin took over?
That's easy.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/game/...
True, it didn't look as good by the end of the season. But it was definitely fun at the time!
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 10:38 AM - Post#361999
In response to CM
The fact is Dartmouth MBB's brand is being bad at basketball. McLaughlin is no worse than the past several coaches from a record perspective. It is well known that Dartmouth's admissions department is now, and has been, one of the last cooperative in the Ivys so any coach starts with one hand tied behind his back.
Other than Craig Austin, which Dartmouth MBB recruits have been denied by admissions?
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-22-24 10:44 AM - Post#362000
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
- GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
I feel bad for the guys. It's hard on their psyche to suffer so many losses. What does the inflection point look like before change comes to Dartmouth basketball?
Mike Harrity already showed little patience with a losing basketball culture by running Shibles out of town last year.
I would not expect him to hold back on parting ways with McLaughlin as well if the team continues to lose...
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Men's Program
01-22-24 02:22 PM - Post#362011
In response to Go Green
Regardless, we in and around Cambridge have our own favorite Dartmouth Men's Basketball moment and remain eternally grateful!
https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2015/3/7/2099337 6...
Unfortunately, it was this miraculous ending the begat the Ivy Tournament!
By the way, the Yale team(22-10, 11-3) you beat was much better than the referenced Georgetown team (6-25, 0-19).
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 01-22-24 02:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-22-24 02:32 PM - Post#362013
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
That came under Cormier, not McLaughlin.
And as I said on the Voy Board earlier today, it was a mistake letting Cormier go. He was one of the best in-game coaches that the league has ever seen...
Ah, well...
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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01-22-24 02:39 PM - Post#362015
In response to Go Green
I recall 5'9" guard Malik Gill neutralizing Wes Saunders for a Dartmouth upset of a very good Harvard squad. Saunders used to like to dribble and back into his defender, only to sink his turn around fade-away jumper. Gill completely crowded Saunders and upset his rythm so that the much taller Saunders simply couldn't dribble himself into scoring position.
That was game coaching!
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 04:54 PM - Post#362019
In response to Go Green
That's not how it works - getting outright denied admissions. The Ivy basketball world is tiny, nothing is secret. The fact is Dartmouth MBB doesn't even bother recruiting certain players - either because their AAU/HS coach tells Dartmouth coaches not to bother or the coaches themselves know not to bother. The coaches know ahead of time, based on their history of recruiting, which kids can and cannot expect to get help from admissions.
As well, Dartmouth is not known for winning basketball or a place that values winning basketball, so top kids who have the grades to get into an Ivy and want to win games aren't even going to consider Dartmouth. I personally know kids who played at the top Ivys and none of the ever gave going to Hanover a thought.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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01-22-24 06:33 PM - Post#362022
In response to Go Green
DePaul fires Tony Stubblefield after 3-15 start to season.
I wonder if there was more to this. Letting a coach go during the season is tough, even with that record. Didn't one of our out of conference rivals recently replace their HCb after repeated years of poor performance?
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 06:18 AM - Post#362027
In response to CM
That's not how it works - getting outright denied admissions. The Ivy basketball world is tiny, nothing is secret. The fact is Dartmouth MBB doesn't even bother recruiting certain players - either because their AAU/HS coach tells Dartmouth coaches not to bother or the coaches themselves know not to bother. The coaches know ahead of time, based on their history of recruiting, which kids can and cannot expect to get help from admissions.
Whether or not kids want to come to Hanover is an entirely separate issue from admissions.
But I got to push back on this. Dartmouth football's recruiting has been excellent since roughly 2010. We routinely get 10-15 guys a year who have offers from FBS (sometimes BCS) schools. This current year could be the best yet.
If there is a reason why Dartmouth admissions is working well with football, but giving MBB a hard time... I can't come up with it.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 07:08 AM - Post#362028
In response to Go Green
I can answer that. Football is THE priority sport at Dartmouth, this is well known.
Dartmouth is pretty bad at most sports these days and it cannot just be because they're hiring bad coaches across every discipline:
https://www.vnews.com/dartmouth-sports-anal ysis-51...
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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01-23-24 07:18 AM - Post#362029
In response to CM
Should also mention that former WBB coach Koclanes complained several times publicly about how difficult it was to recruit kids to Hanover.
She never said a thing about admissions being difficult.
Neither has any other Dartmouth coach since Furstenburg left.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 09:42 AM - Post#362030
In response to CM
I can answer that. Football is THE priority sport at Dartmouth, this is well known.
Dartmouth is pretty bad at most sports these days and it cannot just be because they're hiring bad coaches across every discipline:
Of course it isn't.
But its poor reasoning to automatically conclude that admissions must be the culprit.
Far more logical is that Dartmouth is sponsoring too many sports and we don't have the resources to compete with some of our Ivy brethren. The former AD attempted to contract some sports--most of which have been underperforming forever--that would have freed up resources (admissions slots, $$$) for remaining sports.
Unfortunately, we screwed it up and relented under threats of lawsuits. So we have to keep on carrying some deadweight sports...
Money matters. Dartmouth has had good coaches (soccer, softball, WLAX) poached by higher programs. Had we been able to pay them more, we'd have a lot more titles. We might be able to do better in basketball than hiring D-III coaches (McLaughlin, Shibles).
And I assure you that there have been plenty of coaches who have complained about admissions. Cozza and Banghart come to mind, but others exist. None of them have come from Dartmouth since Furstenburg (who hated athletics) left our admissions office.
In short, I think you're going to need more than "the teams aren't doing well" to claim that admissions is the problem.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32831
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-24 02:18 PM - Post#362036
In response to Go Green
No Question that Cormier was a great in-game coach. A major mistake by the Dartmouth AD and it appears to have been a bit of a personal thing, if I recall the quotes at the time. I was always afraid of Dartmouth when he was the coach
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Men's Program
01-23-24 03:46 PM - Post#362043
In response to palestra38
First and foremost, Dartmouth has to find hidden gem recruits who can transform their team. Even compared to other Ivies, the Big Green is at a disadvantage and is going to lose out on top recruits. So they have to go out of the box to find their stars. Not easy, but it's possible.
Elite talents like Tosan Evbuomwan and Xaivian Lee were right there for anyone to get. Tosan emailed every single Ivy and only Princeton replied. We got lucky with Xaivian, who was recommended by Jaelin Llewellyn's dad. Even so, Princeton was his only offer and he might have signed elsewhere if someone else got to him first. Lightly recruited kids favor the first program to express interest.
As for a new head coach, Dartmouth should overpay to hire our lead assistant Brett MacConnell. It's well known that he wants to be a head coach in the very near future and Brian Earl has already proven the merits of the Mitch Henderson coaching tree. I'd hate to lose MacConnell AND Earl to fellow Ivies, but he would be such a great get for Dartmouth.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32831
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 04:07 PM - Post#362045
In response to gokinsmen
I think he is likely to get offers with better situations than Dartmouth.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 04:09 PM - Post#362046
In response to gokinsmen
Elite talents like Tosan Evbuomwan and Xaivian Lee were right there for anyone to get. Tosan emailed every single Ivy and only Princeton replied. We got lucky with Xaivian, who was recommended by Jaelin Llewellyn's dad. Even so, Princeton was his only offer and he might have signed elsewhere if someone else got to him first. Lightly recruited kids favor the first program to express interest.
I'm sure CM would blame Dartmouth's admissions for our not getting those guys.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 06:00 PM - Post#362052
In response to Go Green
The last player even close to that level that went to Hanover was Evan Boudreaux (and we know why he went), and he lasted only two years.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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02-25-24 01:24 AM - Post#363963
In response to CM
Do we win any of the final 3?
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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02-25-24 07:03 AM - Post#363964
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
After Satudray's game I'd say Dartmouth can for sure win any of the final 3. Will they? I'd not bet on it, but seeing how competitive they were with Princeton I think the Big Green can win any game.
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Greenhorn
Senior
Posts: 321
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-25-24 01:31 PM - Post#363980
In response to CM
That just makes the current situation even less tolerable. They can compete, they just don't.
I want to care about the program, but there has been precious little to get excited about in the last several years.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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02-26-24 08:50 AM - Post#364001
In response to Greenhorn
Unless Dartmouth wins two of the final three, I think its a safe bet that we see some changes in the program in the off-season.
And even if we do win two more, it's still a pretty decent bet that changes happen.
We ain't winning all three...
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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02-26-24 10:33 PM - Post#364024
In response to Go Green
Two of our last three are on the road, where we are winless this year. Maybe we get up for a Harvard game, but if Harvard's still in the hunt for Ivy Madness, then they'd have more to play for.
The huge step back this year is frustrating for the program. Every time it feels like we're on the cusp of breaking through, it turns out to just be a blip instead of a new normal.
The unionization thing is not great--not because I'm not pro-union, but because it seems to signal the players' discontent and their desire to organize against, from what I've heard, being pushed in practice. If that is indeed the case, then there's no chance the program is getting out of the basement as presently constructed.
Hanover High needs a new basketball coach and assistant AD...
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3054
Reg: 10-20-14
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02-27-24 01:18 PM - Post#364046
In response to flinder
Since Dartmouth's new AD removed Adrienne Shibles after a couple of poor years, I would think he would be willing to make a change for the men's team.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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02-27-24 03:36 PM - Post#364051
In response to rbg
Perhaps, but Shibles was a special case, I think. Not only had she posted the two worst seasons in program history in consecutive years, she was facing an exodus of players who had either entered the portal or quit outright. Both Clare Meyer and Doreen Ariik were in the portal when Cimino took over, can you imagine how awful the team would have been this year without those two?
So, yes, McLaughlin's record has been sub-optimal, but it doesn't even approach the levels of Shibles. That said, Harrity has shown a propensity for cutting coaches loose - I think he's up to 7 firings since he took over.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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02-28-24 06:14 AM - Post#364061
In response to CM
Perhaps, but Shibles was a special case, I think. Not only had she posted the two worst seasons in program history in consecutive years, she was facing an exodus of players who had either entered the portal or quit outright. Both Clare Meyer and Doreen Ariik were in the portal when Cimino took over, can you imagine how awful the team would have been this year without those two?
Don't forget that for her two recruiting classes, there was a combined total of one other D-I offer among her recruits. Everyone else's only D-I offer was Dartmouth.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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02-28-24 06:19 AM - Post#364062
In response to flinder
Two of our last three are on the road, where we are winless this year. Maybe we get up for a Harvard game, but if Harvard's still in the hunt for Ivy Madness, then they'd have more to play for.
The huge step back this year is frustrating for the program. Every time it feels like we're on the cusp of breaking through, it turns out to just be a blip instead of a new normal.
The unionization thing is not great--not because I'm not pro-union, but because it seems to signal the players' discontent and their desire to organize against, from what I've heard, being pushed in practice. If that is indeed the case, then there's no chance the program is getting out of the basement as presently constructed.
Hanover High needs a new basketball coach and assistant AD...
If true, they didn't need a union for that. They could have done what they did with Terry Dunn and announce that they'd refuse to take the court for him.
He was gone a few days later.
Also begs the question of how they *do* expect to get better if they aren't being ridden hard in practice... *sigh*
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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02-28-24 06:59 AM - Post#364063
In response to Go Green
I hear this a lot, the old trope of 'spoiled youth of today, don't want to get pushed in practice' and all I will add is there is no way you get to play Division 1 basketball if you're not willing to practice hard. Like, it is impossible.
However, your willingness to be pushed often relates to how you feel you're being treated as a human being. Managing a Dartmouth academic load and playing a D1 sport is virtually intolerable if you feel your coaches treat you like garbage. I'm not saying that is the case, but simply assigning to the players the 'they just don't want to work hard' is a worn out straw man.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Men's Program
02-28-24 09:07 AM - Post#364067
In response to CM
I hear this a lot, the old trope of 'spoiled youth of today, don't want to get pushed in practice' and all I will add is there is no way you get to play Division 1 basketball if you're not willing to practice hard. Like, it is impossible.
However, your willingness to be pushed often relates to how you feel you're being treated as a human being. Managing a Dartmouth academic load and playing a D1 sport is virtually intolerable if you feel your coaches treat you like garbage. I'm not saying that is the case, but simply assigning to the players the 'they just don't want to work hard' is a worn out straw man.
There is no shortage of counter-points to this. But I'll throw out former Dartmouth WLAX coach Amy Patton.
The General had a lot of success early in her career at Dartmouth. Was a regular in the NCAA tournaments and made a couple of final fours.
From all accounts, she ran her players hard.
Two decades and change later, she was run out of town by player complaints. The story seemed to be that Patton didn't adjust her methods to "today's" players. There's not a lot of daylight between that and "today's players are softer than yesterday's players."
I'm all for Darwin and the need to adapt/evolve. That said, I am sympathetic to coaches who are "accused" of pushing their players too hard...
Edited by Go Green on 02-28-24 09:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
02-28-24 09:21 AM - Post#364068
In response to Go Green
Again, I'd point to my second paragraph. The degree to which a kid is willing to work is directly related to how they're treated. There is an inherent asymmetry to coach/athlete power dynamic, which most athletes acknowledge and live wth. But there comes a tipping point and you're probably right that modern college athletes are less likely to put up with abusive coaches than past generations. But that is not the same thing as being unwilling to work hard and conflating the two is an all too common mistake.
In fact, there's a recent example at Dartmouth I'd encourage people to read about:
https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2024/02/coach ...
Were these runners soft?
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
02-28-24 10:04 AM - Post#364072
In response to CM
Were these runners soft?
I'll concede that being worked so hard that physical injuries have resulted to several players is extreme. No one is advocating going back to the days of the "Junction Boys."
The Patton situation and I suspect any situation of the current MBB team falls well-short of those circumstances. Few, if any of my football teammates "liked" getting up at a quarter to six and trekking over to the field house during Hanover winters for pre-dawn offseason workouts. But we did it. And it made us better players.
Edited by Go Green on 02-28-24 10:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
02-28-24 11:41 AM - Post#364081
In response to Go Green
Right, but you're making my point, college athletes expect to have to make sacrifices like waking up early for a lift. They know this is part of the game in being a college athlete, simply the price of admission. What's the saying: if it was easy everyone would do it.
I would be shocked if the Dartmouth MBB guys have issues with that flavor of sacrifice. But I'm not in the gym/locker room, so who knows.
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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Re: Men's Program
02-28-24 11:13 PM - Post#364131
In response to CM
I mean, none of us are in the locker room, so we're all obviously speculating.
What I'm still curious about is what compelled them to unionize. Usually, when one does that, it's to get better working conditions. I haven't heard anything about McLaughlin being any kind of a taskmaster or unkind. (Plenty of players had issues with Cormier but loved Faucher, but the love for their coach didn't really correlate with the team's record...) But you don't form a union because everything is hunky-dory.
I don't know--I think I'm just confused and, given the team's continued sad-sackery, disheartened.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: Men's Program
02-29-24 07:42 AM - Post#364143
In response to flinder
Agreed. The impetus on the unionization remains far from explained, other than as a general organization exercise. But why that program and why now?
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Men's Program
02-29-24 08:17 AM - Post#364145
In response to flinder
I mean, none of us are in the locker room, so we're all obviously speculating.
What I'm still curious about is what compelled them to unionize. Usually, when one does that, it's to get better working conditions. I haven't heard anything about McLaughlin being any kind of a taskmaster or unkind. (Plenty of players had issues with Cormier but loved Faucher, but the love for their coach didn't really correlate with the team's record...) But you don't form a union because everything is hunky-dory.
I don't know--I think I'm just confused and, given the team's continued sad-sackery, disheartened.
I agree with this. There may be good reasons not to publicly list the grievances prior to unionization. One of them might be that the public would not be sympathetic and, as a result, not be supportive of the union.
I suspect that such is the case with MBB. But again- its speculation on my part.
Not surprised that players had issues with Cormier. He spent some time in the NBA and probably learned some next-level stuff that he tried with Dartmouth upon his return.
And while I never played basketball, I did like Faucher as a person. I would not expect him to remember me, but we did have a short chat during his coaching tenure.
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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02-29-24 11:52 AM - Post#364153
In response to Go Green
Did anyone catch this tidbit from the recent Valley News article?:
"Working against McLaughlin is that he was chosen for his job instead of current Cornell coach Brian Earl. The onetime Princeton associate coach has the formerly moribund Big Red in first place and will soon guide his squad in its fourth Ivy League tournament since he came aboard. Dartmouth has never qualified for the four-team even, which began in 2017."
Is that true, that we had Earl and McLaughlin in the running and the AD chose McLaughlin over Earl?
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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02-29-24 03:31 PM - Post#364161
In response to flinder
Cornell hired Earl a week before Dartmouth hired McLaughlin.
I have no idea what went on behind the scenes, or whether Earl had a preference between the two jobs.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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02-29-24 03:41 PM - Post#364162
In response to Go Green
Two things.
One, I can see the old AD administration being petty enough to not be so inclined to sign a Princeton assistant.
Two, McLaughlin had pre-existing relationships within the Dartmouth hiring apparatus.
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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02-29-24 10:29 PM - Post#364168
In response to CM
Sometimes, the team's own social media unintentionally tells on the state of things. They just celebrated Dusan Neskovic for being the first Dartmouth men's player to score 20+ points in three consecutive games in EIGHT YEARS. That...should not be considered an especially impressive feat. (But congrats to him; he's trying to show up.)
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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03-02-24 11:12 PM - Post#364347
In response to flinder
And the reward for Neskovic was to only play 13 minutes against Yale? I don't think he saw the floor until the second half; did he violate a team rule or something?
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3996
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-03-24 10:01 AM - Post#364369
In response to flinder
Take that to the NLRB.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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03-04-24 10:47 AM - Post#364464
In response to Old Bear
I think all will be happy once the season is mercifully over...
While I'm sorry that things didn't work out, I'm not expecting McLaughlin to be the coach by the end of the week. Hopefully the team can put up some fight against Harvard tomorrow...
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Greenhorn
Senior
Posts: 321
Reg: 11-24-04
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03-05-24 06:08 PM - Post#364599
In response to Go Green
“These young men will go down as one of the greatest basketball teams in all of history,” said SEIU International President Mary Kay Henry.
Guessing Mary Kay has not watched a lot of hoops.
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Joe.Yemly
Freshman
Posts: 27
Age: 38
Reg: 03-08-17
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03-05-24 07:33 PM - Post#364605
In response to Go Green
Dartmouth brought four guys to campus:
Billy Taylor
Dave McLaughlin
Mark Prosser
Dan Fischer
All four are current head coaches. Only Prosser has a winning record. Maybe Earl was in the running before taking Cornell but he never made it to campus.
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flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
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03-05-24 09:52 PM - Post#364611
In response to Joe.Yemly
Looks like they should have unionized earlier in the season.
Go, Local SEIU 560!
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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03-06-24 06:16 AM - Post#364614
In response to flinder
Norma Rae is cheering!!!
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