Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-05-24 07:45 PM - Post#362820
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/20 24/0...
I honestly wonder if Dartmouth reinstating mandatory SAT scores for applicants is a bigger deal.
|
weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
|
02-05-24 08:30 PM - Post#362822
In response to Penn90
Next step: Dartmouth recruits a couple of Teamsters with excellent grades and ACT scores to play power forward.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
Re: Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-05-24 09:32 PM - Post#362826
In response to Penn90
I think this NLRB ruling is potentially a far, far bigger deal.
Could fundamentally change how all colleges operate.
Edited by penn nation on 02-05-24 09:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
|
Re: Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-05-24 10:03 PM - Post#362828
In response to penn nation
Only if it holds up, of course.
|
Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-06-24 12:05 AM - Post#362831
In response to iogyhufi
Acapella up next.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
|
james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
|
02-06-24 07:05 AM - Post#362833
In response to Bruno
this is so confusing to me.... in terms of implications
how are the benefits to the employees (players) higher than the costs in a program that doesnt make money? (assuming correct) where players arent on scholarships which is also tricky
i guess i understand point on "working" conditions but most obvious impact is that means you fly charter to lawrence kansas in a pay game but maybe at the expense of womens fencing being financed?
i guess i do get the implications at usc if cali rules this way though i am not sure how many basketball programs outside of a few conferences are wildly profitable
football in sec a different story obv but players are already getting paid a bundle and if anything this tax could offset benefits already obtained. so net net could hurt those players you'd think
|
sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
|
Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-06-24 09:25 AM - Post#362834
In response to james
I have not thought through all implications but it seems to me this ultimately affects tax nonprofit status of college sports.
Also I don't see how ivy athletic support groups ("Friends of ......") will be able to raise nearly as much as they do usually. Not many donors will be inclined to support athletes demanding more.
|
james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
|
02-06-24 12:06 PM - Post#362839
In response to sparman
makes sense.
but i womder if it pops the sec/big ten football bubble or further inflates it
as of now funds from the nil fanatics (fans) are bottomless coaches salaries higher than avg fortune 10000 ceo and guaranteed...and privately funded. but i guess if you tax profits and players are employees the operating margins cld be crimped somewhere in the value chain
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
02-06-24 12:33 PM - Post#362841
In response to james
Good. Get rid of the administrative bloat at universities. Get more into the hands of students that are generating the revenues.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32831
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-06-24 02:04 PM - Post#362842
In response to penn nation
What revenues? Dartmouth pays money to play basketball. Are the schools now partners with the players? Are the players going to contribute to cover the losses? This is narrative gone mad. The ideas that Harvard cannot make its own decisions on whom to admit, that the Ivy League cannot not offer athletic scholarships and now this are the kinds of decisions that are based on the inability to see things as they are. It's another in a continuing series of brain farts--where judges (under the influence of highly paid lobbyist attorneys) put square boxes in round holes. It's bad policy replacing law that never was intended to deal with these situations.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-07-24 08:36 PM - Post#362871
In response to palestra38
In this case it’s the NLRB’s opinion. Real judges have yet to rule. Thanks, administrative state!
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32831
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-07-24 09:14 PM - Post#362873
In response to SRP
Judges have ruled on the other two cases I mentioned.
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
|
Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-12-24 06:56 AM - Post#363144
In response to palestra38
I posted on the Dartmouth board, but now see that this group makes more sense...
-----------
Just curious. How does this work, exactly? If they strike, does the team just stop playing games? I know that won't look good for alumni, but it doesn't exactly impact the broader school 's operations or business.
I'm just a little bit lost on this concept. Anyone have insight?
If this is something real, then the Union chose a pretty weak starting point. This is one of the least revenue generating, least profitable, least prestige building, least irreplaceable teams in sports - against a school and league that doesn't care that much about sports and has a lot of financial capacity to deal with legal issues.
This is also one of the situations where they will have the least sympathy. Wouldn't fellow students and alumni resent them asking to be paid in a money losing sport which has brought little glory to the University - while the cost of tuition is rising? Do they threaten to leave the school? Would students stop attending classes and paying tuition and would professors stop showing up to support them?
As you can see, I'm not getting it. Unionization is about building leverage. This feels like some students trying to build a story to tell about their courage - but it seems to have no likelihood of achieving positive goals. It won't earn much money due to league limits on practice hours, and it won't help the players' future employment prospects in basketball or in the broader world. If they think they are helping others, it feels more like selfishness in that it will hurt all of the student athletes non-revenue generating sports. Colleges (even Stanford) are looking for reasons to cancel sports like sailing, golf, fencing, swimming, etc. and this would give them a convenient excuse.
Edited by Penndemonium on 02-12-24 07:04 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8254
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-12-24 09:30 AM - Post#363145
In response to Penndemonium
I agree. This seems nonsensical. I suspect Dartmouth basketball runs at a deficit, even if you include the ESPN money. Dartmouth hockey likely does better. Consider that, absent athletic scholarships, where is the “compensation” that normally implies an employee relationship?
|
iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
|
Re: Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-12-24 09:40 AM - Post#363147
In response to Streamers
The NLRB regional director's decision said that the players are compensated for their work through preference in admissions, free basketball gear and swag, free tickets for friends and family, hotel rooms and meals on the road, and access to athletic training and support. I wasn't especially impressed with the logic myself, but that was what she said.
|
Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8254
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-12-24 10:37 AM - Post#363149
In response to iogyhufi
Thanks for that explanation, but it strikes me as lan extreme reach.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-13-24 02:09 AM - Post#363161
In response to Streamers
NLRB is naturally prone to support unionization. A judge might see things differently.
|
whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
|
02-14-24 09:10 PM - Post#363204
In response to SRP
Probably unrelated but weird: Dartmouth's final game is moved to the same 3/5 date because of league rules that regular-season games can't be played during finals https://twitter.com/IvyLeague/status/1757 872344855...
(probably unrelated because scheduling a home game for the same day as the union vote makes it an even bigger story, but weird because you'd think someone would have noticed before the season, and also Dartmouth ended its season during finals period as recently as 2019)
|
Cooper
Sophomore
Posts: 143
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-14-24 10:49 PM - Post#363206
In response to whitakk
And Dartmouth plays its final football game in the midst of fall finals.
|
Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 380
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
|
02-15-24 12:10 AM - Post#363212
In response to Cooper
Something’s fishy. The date of finals wasn’t known before????
|
JDP
Masters Student
Posts: 577
Reg: 11-23-04
|
Dartmouth NLRB Decision
02-15-24 12:22 AM - Post#363213
In response to Tiger84
To address Cooper's comment and fuel Tiger84's increduality - Why can Dartmouth "suspend" exams on a Saturday in November allowing the Football and Fall sports team to play ... but they cannot "suspend" exams on a Saturday in March to allow the Basketball and other teams to play?
Fall 2023 - detailed calendar
September 11, 2023 -- Fall term classes begin
November 14, 2023 -- Fall term classes end
November 17, 2023 -- Final Examination period begins
November 18, 2023 -- Final examinations suspended
November 21, 2023 -- Scheduled Final Examinations end
November 22, 2023 -- Final Examination period ends
Winter 2024 - detailed calendar
January 3, 2024-- Winter term classes begin
January 15, 2024 -- Martin Luther King Jr. Day
March 5, 2024 -- Winter term classes end
March 8, 2024 -- Final Examination period begins
March 11, 2024 -- Scheduled Final Examinations end
March 12, 2024 -- Final Examination period ends
Edited by JDP on 02-15-24 12:23 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
