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Username Post: Penn II        (Topic#27832)
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-12-24 05:56 PM - Post#363156    

The second circuit of the Ivy League starts this Friday at the Palestra.

Clark Slajchert will play. This is big not only because Slajchert is, you know, good, but also because it means Bez probably won't guard Tyler Perkins - the newest entry in Steve Donohue's Once Every Four Years Superstar Recruit (see also Dingle, Jordan; Brodeur, AJ). Yale has to figure out who's going to guard him and how.

On the other end, the first game made plain that whatever the answer may be to the Danny Wolf question, Nick Spinoso one-on-one is not it. Penn has played an funnel-in style of defense for a while now, but that's really hard to do against a team whose center shoots threes well. (It's why I think Penn has struggled so mightily with Princeton recently.) Not sure what Penn will do, but it'll have to be something different.

Yale hasn't beaten Penn at the Palestra since 2017-18 - the ZombieQuakers year. It's important for that to change if Yale wants to keep pace in the race for the 1 seed.

 
james 
Masters Student
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Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-12-24 06:35 PM - Post#363157    
    In response to iogyhufi

yea i agree on perkins. he shows a lot of moxie for a freshman and was under-recruited given what he did in the IAC which is a league of greatness even if you dont play at the vernable EHS.

penn will be much improved and very dangerous after a week of practice and health.

i dont know what our issue is in the palestra. it cast its spell in the 2015 playoff and hasnt come off.

be very curious how Wolf is guarded going forward. its a little uncomfortable to see all the accolades coming his way but still have this 4 game road swing ahead.
but i like most are enamored w his game at his size.

i think the challenge for james and staff is to keep the offense going through him as a playmaker or finisher.
but i wld prefer not to see him as a jumpshooter even if he's on.
if i am correct then i'd imagine the goal for the opposition is the latter.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-14-24 07:43 AM - Post#363185    
    In response to james

james confirms on the field of 68 podcast that the NIL "sharks are in the water" on Danny Wolf


 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-14-24 09:46 AM - Post#363186    
    In response to james

I'm not surprised. Frankly, he'd have been tampered with even before NIL - maybe Harvard's own Will Wade would've made him a strong-*** offer. He's too good not to. The hope is that he likes it enough here/values the degree enough/has become addicted to apizza enough to stay.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-14-24 12:02 PM - Post#363187    
    In response to iogyhufi

yes. dingle doesnt look great to me at st johns.

if wolf finishes strong (which i obviously hope for) this year i hope he figures out a plan that includes sticking around for a year preferably two. good sign that they are communicating and jones threw out that jarvis was initially making 6 figs at UF bf he dropped out.

i guess you can argue it still worked out for Oni to leave early. he played for 3 yrs in the nba and got a yale degree.
now hes bt g league/euroleague which isnt terrible.

i am not an nba scout but i consider wolf an even better prospect at this age. i believe he was only a 4 yr hs student despite going to northfield. oni was older.
but wolf also has an over the table option to make money in college so....

no guarantees for the nba but wolf cld be a star in euroleague so that base case is a lot of $s. it will be interesting

 
mobrien 
Masters Student
Posts: 406

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
02-14-24 12:19 PM - Post#363188    
    In response to james

Agree that Dingle is a great counter-example. He'd have been better off, as far as his pro prospects go, running the show at Penn for another year (but making a point to focus on his weaknesses) than to be one of many at St. John's. Sometimes knowing you'll be *the* guy is worth a lot from a development perspective; reps matter.

Where it gets tricky is when you're talking about more than one year of NIL money, like we would be for Wolf (or Mack). Then it adds up. But if either one of those guys are thinking about trying to go pro after just one more year, you can make a strong argument that they'd be better served staying where they are and knowing they'll be featured.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-14-24 01:18 PM - Post#363189    
    In response to mobrien

add xaivian lee and pierce to the underclassmen list.
there are others i am sure but the aforementioned + wolf+ mack are marketable based on results and have runway to your point.

it's a bit scary but it's not sec football. wish the collectives were developed such that something/anything could better thwart an advance

 
LocalTiger 
Masters Student
Posts: 505

Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
02-14-24 01:27 PM - Post#363190    
    In response to james

Pierce seems a different case.
The other three, like Dingle and
Tosan, are now the main men with
the ball in their hands.

Pierce is more of a complementary player.
He rebounds, defends and can score, but
does not dominate the ball. The question
on all the others is can they fit in and be
enhanced by other talent.

That has not been the case with Dingle.
Tosan is faring better, but the jury is
still out.

None of this accounts for whether the kids
in question care about an Ivy League degree.
Tough decisions for smart, talented young men.
Welcome to the modern world.



 
hoopsfan 
Masters Student
Posts: 650

Reg: 12-26-04
02-14-24 02:38 PM - Post#363192    
    In response to LocalTiger

Whatever Wolf, Mack and Lee do will say a lot about the IL in this era of the new basketball landscape. All of us – as fans – hope they stay. But all of us as rational actors understand why they might not.

Some of these players come from means, others do not. That is always an element to consider. Another of course is which decision will best promote an NBA career, and the Dingle example seems like cautionary tale in this regard.

Another consideration that I have not seen mentioned is this: great players are driven to play the best. Ours is a league with great players and some great athletes. The better conferences are loaded with players who are both. I could see a player propelled to prove themselves against the best. Of course, even so this could be outweighed by other considerations. But for players at this level, it’s a factor.


 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-14-24 04:36 PM - Post#363193    
    In response to hoopsfan

That's certainly fair. Of course, to build off the example of Dingle, you could stay and have the entire team built around you, or you could go and be meh for a team that may not make the tourney. Or you could go to a top team and have them recruit a McDonald's All-American who takes your spot! Plus you might have to give up the bird-in-the-hand of an IL degree. There are risks both ways.

Of course, if someone had offered me $100k as a college student to go somewhere else, it would've been hard to say no.

 
ToothlessTiger 
Senior
Posts: 341

Age: 77
Reg: 03-28-15
02-14-24 06:39 PM - Post#363195    
    In response to iogyhufi

Wolf is the only IL player who has an excellent chance to reach the NBA. He has something that can't be taught: size

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1894

Reg: 11-21-04
02-14-24 06:51 PM - Post#363196    
    In response to ToothlessTiger

Isnt it just a matter of time before Ivy alums start shoveling money through NIL deals to their schools’ star athletes? I would not assume that the NIL bug will bypass the Ivies. Im not aware that the league or any of its schools has put limits on NIL. Am I missing something?

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-14-24 08:19 PM - Post#363198    
    In response to TigerFan

i would assume so to the extent its legal in the IL.
the last i heard as of the summer is no collectives existed at Yale yet.
typically a collective would be linked to a sport or team.
vicky chun, yale's AD, has certainly encouraged money going to the program or an individual player ideally for an entrepreneurial venture or non profit participation. this is a vastly different stance than what i see in SEC/ACC country both firsthand through family members all the way to kids i coach. to my knowledge there have been challenges ongoing to the ncaa oversight of using NIL inducement of recruiting.
while i am not sure the status bc its fluid and state by state what i can tell you is that collectives do exist and do purchase players on the high school and free agent mkt as well as provide funds to retain said players.
so i would agree its a matter of time but likely will need someone to break the ice namely a marquee player actually transferring bc of lack of funds to actually establish the collectivr for say mens basketball.
yale for one is resistant bc it would like to promote equality for all. this is obviously not possible or realistic.
lacrosse could be a test case given joe tsai's involvement and passion and fact that he is ome
of wealthiest men in the world. he watches practice on his laptop
for example.
basketball is a different beast at yale. james never asks for money and says besides nicer meals for
road trips he wouldnt know what to do with it anyway.
will an awful catalyst like a key transfer change the tune? probably


 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-14-24 08:44 PM - Post#363203    
    In response to james

the most incredible part of the football collectives-no audit and its a blind pool. you dont know who receives the money, how much nor how much the adminstrator receives.
fan absolutely is short for fanatic.
i am told no info is provided because there is no cap and they domt want the players to know how big the blind pool is.
incredible

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4927

Reg: 02-04-06
02-14-24 10:56 PM - Post#363207    
    In response to james

Supposedly there is concern on the part of players about others in the locker room knowing what they're getting. Hence little pushback against the very common NDAs that go with these collective "NIL" deals.

What cracks me up is the bait-and-switch by which NIL was sold by all the columnists and promoters. It is indeed very reasonable that if a kid gets famous by playing college sports, then he ought to be able to monetize that fame. It is another matter entirely to have boosters paying players who are largely unknown to play at their schools, with a sham NIL cover--nobody would have agreed to that had it been presented that way.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-15-24 08:55 AM - Post#363218    
    In response to SRP

it is the wild west and i agree.

i havent looked at how the collectives are structured.
i thought they were non profits but maybe not.
the IRS will have a field day if not.

anyway no expert but am forced to dig a bit bc i am advising some recruits. i did post a number of qs on an SEC msg board that actively markets its collective.
generally the responses as to the details indicate contributors are in the dark.
your point on ndas is interesting as no one else mentioned.
for perspective, for high school juniors and seniors in the top ~125 ish they are receiving strong indications of nil ranges from all schools.
one kid who is a 5 star football player and a sophomore ranked #1 at his position by rivals...is receiving 7 figure indications and is being offered money to visit schools

it is madness which is why i am so worried how it impacts the top players in our league.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-15-24 09:17 AM - Post#363219    
    In response to james

james on a different podcast this am called "the pod of jake"
listened on hyperspeed.

towards the end he discusses the season. anyway as i wrote above he says that offense has been challenging bc of all the different stuff thrown at them- triangle and one, switching,
doubles etc. he didnt specifically cite wolf but its why the back half will be very interesting starting this weekend as you rotate through

lastly he mentions nil and college basketball at the end.
no specifics really.
james said it likely didnt affect them as of last year in another interview.
just confirms to me the trickle down is real as its on his mind

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2286
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
02-15-24 01:55 PM - Post#363226    
    In response to james

  • james Said:
james on a different podcast this am called "the pod of jake"
listened on hyperspeed.

towards the end he discusses the season. anyway as i wrote above he says that offense has been challenging bc of all the different stuff thrown at them- triangle and one, switching,
doubles etc. he didnt specifically cite wolf but its why the back half will be very interesting starting this weekend as you rotate through

lastly he mentions nil and college basketball at the end.
no specifics really.
james said it likely didnt affect them as of last year in another interview.
just confirms to me the trickle down is real as its on his mind



Interesting Podcast; I read the AI transcript, which is a bit hilarious.

James is clearly the best in the Ivies. Henderson and Earl a notch below.

I was struck how detailed he was about his practice drills.


 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-16-24 08:10 PM - Post#363309    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

No Matt Knowling tonight, which could be a problem. And Tyler Perkins is having a much easier time this game than last. Yale has to get the lid off the hoop here.

 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-16-24 08:46 PM - Post#363314    
    In response to iogyhufi

Yale 45-30 at half. Penn's defense is so, so bad. Good recovery by Yale, and good minutes from the bench. Yassine defended Slajchert very well.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 807

Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
02-16-24 10:39 PM - Post#363338    
    In response to iogyhufi

does knowling ever play on this road trip?
i caught a little in 1H and saw him in street clothes but no boot.

appears penn defended wolf on the perimeter. baited him into some 3s and he was off. but solid considering no knowling which makes it easier to defend wolf creatively.

otherwise win and move on. but need knowling. not a good sign when he on the bench after a week off. but who knows.

 
iogyhufi 
Masters Student
Posts: 681

Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
02-16-24 11:58 PM - Post#363346    
    In response to james

Really impressive effort with no Matt Knowling. If he doesn't play tomorrow, it's doable, but it'll be hard - wonder who they'll put Nick on on defense.

 
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