umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 02:57 PM - Post#365424
In response to gokinsmen
Seeing the replay of the offensive goaltending at the arena, I thought that the ball was down when he grabbed the rim - but I am not sure about the rule.
Down 3, no timeouts without the ball with 44 seconds - I think the right play is to play defense and hope for a possession to tie with 15 seconds to go - with no timeout to get a good three after a stop and a rebound is stil a tall order.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 03:05 PM - Post#365425
In response to umbrellaman
Yeah, I think the ball has to be through the net to officially count. It was already past the rim, which is what made the goaltend so painful. Everyone could see that was going down.
I wouldn't have minded fouling a weak FT shooter like Owusu-Anane with 40s left. But to commit a ticky-tack foul on Lilly like that was brutal.
Losing on so many mental mistakes is what hurts so bad. Missing open shots happens. The other team making tough shots happens. But a notoriously "mistake-free" team playing so sloppy was gut-wrenching. Sorry you had to see that in-person. Not sure I can enjoy March Madness this year. I'll be rooting for the Ivy rep but only checking in occasionally.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 04:11 PM - Post#365431
In response to gokinsmen
Well, at best IvyMadness is only going to be at Levien once every eight years, so I think I was right to go, (and not wait until tomorrow).
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 04:36 PM - Post#365437
In response to umbrellaman
I hate that homecourt doesn't go to the #1 seed - Vermont won their autobid at home in a nailbiter. You can be sure they were happy for the advantage.
One one hand, all higher seeds should be hosting in a one-bid league. On the other hand, it's hard to complain when "rotating sites" helped us last year. Likely no iconic Sweet 16 run without playing Penn and Yale at Jadwin. On the third hand, it hurt us in 2022 just like 2024.
We need to end this rotating system once everyone has hosted once. Top seed(s) should be hosting. If the Patriot and America East can do it, why can't the Ivy?
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-16-24 04:49 PM - Post#365442
In response to umbrellaman
Yeah, frontcourt depth was a preseason concern. Martini also had a pretty quiet game in the semi. Without hitting a high trey percentage it was going to be tough.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-16-24 07:19 PM - Post#365459
In response to SRP
Enough whining. Brown is a tough, well coached team. Our earlier wins over them were much tougher than scores indicated. We played hard, made our share of errors and were not 100% — Lee had to sit out practice yesterday. Brown earned the win, but we can still hold our heads high.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 07:47 PM - Post#365464
In response to Tiger69
I could take losing - I can't stand losing because of so many mental mistakes. Even at the end, we just had to play defense and I guarantee Allocco doesn't miss a game-tying 3.
We had one of the Top 3 mid-major teams in the nation this year and now they don't get to show how good they are. March Madness is the best playoff in sports.
That said, we're so fortunate that Pierce and Lee are just sophs. Next year could be even better - if they learn from this heartbreak.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2274
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 08:49 PM - Post#365473
In response to gokinsmen
Sad end to a fine season. I always had the feeling they were playing above their talent level (attributable to coaching and coachability). Succeeded on the basis of steady D, no turnovers, no fouls, make the foul shots, spread the opponent's D with the 3-ball, and Caden, Xavian, or Mush finishing at the rim as needed.
Ran into team that could defend the 3 and handle Caden or Mush at the rim one on one. Missing Xavian for whatever reason really hurt.
I would have liked to see the 1-3-1 in the first half.
I felt at half-time Davis would be the key to a potential comeback.
Next year we will still be undersized, IMHO.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-24 09:28 PM - Post#365482
In response to Tiger69
Another nod to Brown is that Princeton had sole possession of first place by virtue of Brown defeating Cornell and Yale during this win streak.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 10:02 PM - Post#365484
In response to umbrellaman
True, but we were a cut above Yale and Cornell this season. Hence the outright title and sweep of Brown where our guys handled their physicality and size. I think they just got too complacent after the 2nd win.
This loss just stinks. Reading MH's quotes afterward confirm the team's massive shock and embarrassment. It was unthinkable to lose like this - going down 22 and making so many mental mistakes down the stretch.
When last year's Tigers "upset" Yale, they were both 10-4 in the league with 20+ wins overall and solid NET/KenPom rankings. This is the Ivy version of a 15/2 upset... how apropos.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 10:11 PM - Post#365485
In response to gokinsmen
In its last 7 games, Brown has gone 7-0 including 3-0 against the top 3 Ivy teams, all away from home.
This is no 2-15 upset. They were a buzzsaw ever since their second loss to Princeton.
Edited by penn nation on 03-16-24 10:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-24 10:20 PM - Post#365486
In response to penn nation
Xaivian was apparently very sick. Heard he was in the hospital getting IV fluids yesterday. That explains a lot. Obviously he wasn’t himself today and his illness may have rattled the team somewhat.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 11:13 PM - Post#365490
In response to gokinsmen
The performance today across the board came up way too short and Brown had a lot to do with that. They were more physical on both ends of the floor and Brown beat Cornell and Yale with the same formula on their home courts.
Very disappointing that the grit we have seen for the past year did not surface until it was too late. Caden Pierce has been a rock all season long but today committed many sloppy TOs and missed shots he usually makes. And Xaivian Lee was a non-factor apparently due to illness. It is a stretch to attribute any of these shortcomings to complacency.
The Tigers were outplayed by a very good and hot team today but I disagree that Princeton was looking past Brown today or that this was a huge upset.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-16-24 11:52 PM - Post#365494
In response to Tiger81
I was at the game and said to the guy next to me that Lee looked somewhat like he was sick. Clearly not even 80 pct.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-17-24 12:22 AM - Post#365497
In response to TigerFan
Xaivian was apparently very sick. Heard he was in the hospital getting IV fluids yesterday. That explains a lot. Obviously he wasn’t himself today and his illness may have rattled the team somewhat.
I noticed Xaivian was absent from the ESPN+ media feed yesterday but I didn't want to jump to conclusions. When I saw him getting off the bus on a Twitter/Instagram video, I breathed a sigh of relief thinking he was okay.
Knowing he was hospital-level sick takes a lot of the sting off today's shocker loss. This team is great because of an Iron 5 that includes two POY talents. And one was in the ER getting fluids last night.
We probably eke out a close one with a healthy Lee. Down 3 with 44s left... they just needed 1-2 more buckets.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2274
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Brunch With Bruno
03-17-24 11:05 AM - Post#365515
In response to gokinsmen
One wonders if Dalen Davis should have entered the game earlier and for longer intervals.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-17-24 02:11 PM - Post#365544
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
They probably wanted to but Davis had a rough start (0-4), which makes his 2nd half supernova performance even more incredible to me.
Ugh, why did Lee have to get sick at the worst time? Brown is clearly a different team than before, but we almost certainly win a close one with a healthy Lee.
Meanwhile, Yale beats Brown at the buzzer and goes to the tourney. At least the team with the second-most upset potential is going to the Dance.
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Eric Von Zipper
Senior
Posts: 343
Age: 71
Reg: 11-11-17
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03-17-24 03:10 PM - Post#365561
In response to gokinsmen
Win the tournament and they were slotted as a 12-seed. Lose to buzzsaw and they get a one-way ticket to Palookaville.
With proper seeding they can easily make the NIT final 4.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3667
Reg: 02-06-10
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Brunch With Bruno
03-17-24 03:18 PM - Post#365564
In response to Eric Von Zipper
NIT games are very hard to win - no adrenaline for our guys, less pressure for opponents. And Lee might not be fully recovered by that first game.
As for the NCAAs, I really believe this team would have been an 11 seed (Duquesne winning the A-10 helps) and won at least 1 game. This year's field is much weaker than last year's outside the Top 3. The hardest part was always getting there - Ivy teams know all of our tricks inside and out.
This is a total bummer all-around. I feel awful for the players and coaches. This was a special team, but Brown's shooting and Lee's immune system sank us. If Yale loses in the 1st round, it'll hurt even more ("Should've been us!").
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-17-24 04:34 PM - Post#365580
In response to gokinsmen
What a deflating loss yesterday in Columbia's high school gym. My wife, who watches players' emotion's more than the xs and os, kept remarking that the Tigers didn't look like themselves yesterday. She first made the observation in the early going when the game was still being closely fought. They were missing the joy, bounce, and swagger that they typically play with (particularly Xaivian).
Despite the loss, its been a truly remarkable season--from the win over Rutgers through the near miracle comeback yesterday. If the Tigers do host an NIT game, as I heard they will yesterday, I will be there with bells on.
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