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Username Post: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)        (Topic#349)
Tiger81 
Sophomore
Posts: 127
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-02-05 08:06 PM - Post#1778    

Caught the last overtime on the radio, would love to hear an eyewitness account.

Princeton won despite shooting 3s for 28 of their 43 shots (sinking 10), committing 15 turnovers and getting killed on the boards (39-24, 13-4 on the offensive end). Both teams shot around 80% from the line and 40% from the field. According to the announcers, it was close throughout, with no leads of more than 6.

I don't know much about Davidson except that they are favored to win their conference and Joe Scott said they would be a good test. In the post-game interview he said it was Princeton's best effort of the year considering the quality of the opposition. Although the stats don't look pretty, he rarely overstates his praise.

This appears to be a nice win that Princeton toughed out.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3071

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-02-05 09:11 PM - Post#1779    
    In response to Tiger81

Davidson's record:

Nov. 19 Missouri Columbia, Mo. 84-81, W
Nov. 22 Duke Charlotte, N.C. 61-74, L
Nov. 24 Univ. of ME-Farmington home 103-33, W
Nov. 27 St. Joseph's2 Phila. Pa. 61-76, L
Nov. 30 Georgetown home 51-76, L
Dec. 4 Georgia Southern Statesboro 84-76, W
Dec. 8 Charlotte home 68-87, L
Dec. 11 Brandeis home 69-49, W
Dec. 17 U. of the South home 87-42, W
Dec. 19 Massachusetts Amherst 67-70, L
Dec. 29 Seton Hall Davidson 63-73, L
west coast fan


 
nix23 
goober
Posts: 52

Loc: NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-02-05 10:36 PM - Post#1780    
    In response to internetter

It was a very entertaining game that was almost ruined by the officials (it was worse than the Temple game). The officiating was bad both ways, Princeton got a favorable call at the end of the game on a call that could have gone either way when Venable took a charge under the basket. But on the last basket of regulation by Davidson they called a foul on Venable for a three point play, Venable was actually backing away from the player and not near him when they called the foul on him. Then Greenman drained a 3 at the buzzer but the officials waived it off and said he released the ball after time expired, very close but I thought he got the shot off.
Judson was big from the foul line at the end of the game and in the overtime periods, he also pulled down 14 boards. Greenman was very disappointing as he missed 4 uncontested 3 pointers. Venable made most of his contributions on the defensive end before fouling out. Sargeant was a non factor and I don't know why he was in the game for the last 5 minutes of regulation when Luke was shooting the ball very well. Andre did not play at all in the second half and only came in at the end of the game when Savage fouled out. Savage was pretty solid with a big sequence to start the second overtime, a drive to the basket for the opening points and then a block on the defensive end.

 
Jon Solomon 
T.A.
Posts: 88
Jon Solomon
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-02-05 10:42 PM - Post#1781    
    In response to nix23

"Sargeant was a non factor and I don't know why he was in the game for the last 5 minutes of regulation when Luke was shooting the ball very well."

Because Owings is not anywhere close to 100% on defense.

"Then Greenman drained a 3 at the buzzer but the officials waived it off and said he released the ball after time expired, very close but I thought he got the shot off."

I thought Greenman's shot came after the final buzzer, but without a monitor available to review, we'll probably never know.

Jon
http://www.princetonbasketball.com


 
Anonymous 

Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-02-05 10:46 PM - Post#1782    
    In response to nix23

Agreed that the officiating was atrocious. There was one ref. in particular who seemed to have it in for P'ton.
I too was surprised Sargeant got so much PT down the stretch. Owings must really be hurting still to not have played more. Also was surprised that the Stephens/Wallace combo was never tried during the game.

 
nix23 
goober
Posts: 52

Loc: NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-03-05 01:20 AM - Post#1783    
    In response to

That is understandable Jon, but why not put Luke in for offense and Sargent in for defense in the final minutes like he did in overtime with Luke and Max?
What did you think of Joe Scott's strategy to have Max foul Davidson on purpose in the last minute of the second overtime?
I agree with TigerStyle about the one ref, he was really bad.

 
Jon Solomon 
T.A.
Posts: 88
Jon Solomon
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-03-05 01:39 AM - Post#1784    
    In response to nix23

"What did you think of Joe Scott's strategy to have Max foul Davidson on purpose in the last minute of the second overtime?"

Scott did the same thing vs. Holy Cross. Said afterwards that he lost a game at Air Force because he didn't foul up three in the same situation and he vowed to never let that happen again. So far he's 2-0 at Princeton in these situations.

Jon
http://www.princetonbasketball.com


 
Tiger82 
newbie
Posts: 10

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-03-05 01:43 AM - Post#1785    
    In response to nix23

I believe the old bald referee is the one to which you refer. He is, by far, the worst referee I've seen to date and that includes the refs from my kids rec, travel, and school basketball teams. Too many phantom calls, too many glaring non-calls, too many Academy Award performances, and too many plain wrong calls from one referee. The other 2 were pretty normal with the usual number of mistakes but this one guy embarassed the entire crew. I find it hard to believe that Scott didn't get 2, let alone 1, T.

Now, for the game itself:

1. The potential game winning 3 by Greenman was right in front of me and I thought the ball was barely in his hand when the buzzer went off. The closest referee already had his hand up and signaled a 3 when the ball ripped the net. However, his job was to look at the feet and not at the hands. The other referee (not Baldy) waved off the shot. It was a correct call albeit unpopular.

Bad calls galore....number 5 on Will was when he was running away from the contact..... number 5 on Noah was a slip and a flop by the Davidson guard. Judson was being manhandled the entire game in what looked like WWF tag team strategy by Davidson 15, 35, and 22.

I do have a couple of interesting observations from behind the Tiger bench. If your initials aren't JW, WV, or SG, your playing time is affected by your ability to follow directions from the bench. If you fail to follow direction, you will find a seat watching the game. Many of the substitutions in regulation were spur of the moment subs where Scott seemed unhappy with something the player didn't do.

As for using both Mike and Judson, I was surprised to not see that when Noah was fouled out (note the way I state it) especially when Davidson seemed to easily get to the basket as Judson was trying to avoid foul number 5. It was a miracle that he played both OT periods with 4 fouls and Baldy could have taken him out any time.

As for Matt being in the game at the end instead of Luke, Joe needed more ballhandling with Will out of the game.
With a 3 point lead with less than 10 seconds left, I thought about possibly fouling Davidson to send them to the line for 2 but that is playing with fire as they could convert both and force a turnover with a few ticks left or they could make the first and rebound a missed second shot and get a put-back or a foul. I thought Scott called for tight defensive pressure to make Davidson waste time and give up the foul in trying for a steal. An intentional foul with time for 2-3 possessions was not high on Scott's wish list, I'm sure.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-03-05 09:26 PM - Post#1786    
    In response to Jon Solomon

Quote:

"What did you think of Joe Scott's strategy to have Max foul Davidson on purpose in the last minute of the second overtime?"

Scott did the same thing vs. Holy Cross. Said afterwards that he lost a game at Air Force because he didn't foul up three in the same situation and he vowed to never let that happen again.




I usually like this strategy but I wonder about it's wisdom with a small Princeton squad. PU historically has lost some big games on rebounded FT misses. I think you weigh the likelihood of the opponent hitting a three versus the likelihood of making a FT and then putting back the rebound. You also weigh the chance of a foul on the three point shot versus a foul on the put back. Generally, speaking I think the chance of being tied is less with fouling but the chance of being behind is slightly higher. Whether either strategy leads to more wins is determined by the opponents ability to hit 3s, make FTs and rebound. This probably would be a good strategy in the league but less so against bigger athletic teams.

 
Phil 
Freshman
Posts: 75
Phil
Loc: Princeton
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Princeton 70 Davidson 68 (2OT)
01-04-05 05:01 AM - Post#1787    
    In response to

Bear in mind that the 'small' PU squad has 3 6'10" players on the roster whereas Davidson has a tallest player at 6'9" and he'd fouled out by then.

 
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