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Username Post: Perimeter Play at Siena        (Topic#451)
Howard Gensler 
Postdoc
Posts: 4141

Reg: 11-21-04
01-16-05 07:42 PM - Post#2426    

While the game lent itself to better minutes distribution and then the better distribution led to better play, way better shooting numbers and a 27-point win, a disturbing "trend" continued for the third straight game (this may have been going on longer, I just wasn't keeping track).

In the second half against UIC, Tim Begley's 3 to put Penn up three with 4:10 gone in the second half, was the last FG by a Penn perimeter player in the game.

In the second half against Rider, Begley hit a 3 and Ibby hit a 2 before the first time out and Oz hit his 3 before the second time out. Oz didn't take another shot. Ibby hit 3 in OT going 1-5 (after his FG) and Begley had two 2s and two FTs in regulation, missing 3 shots, and then went 0-3 0-2 FT in OT.

Yesterday against Siena, Oz had 13 (5-5) and Begley 6 (2-3) in the game's first eight minutes, but the only perimeter player FG for the rest of the half was a 3 by David Whitehurst. In the second half, Oz had his final four points in the first 5: 41 and Ibby had one of his two hoops during that time. Begley scored his only second half hoop (a three) before the 13-minute mark and had only a FT in his final five minutes of action.

So in each of the last three games almost all of the perimeter production from the starters has come at the start of each half. However, if the starters play like they did yesterday that would be fine. Penn opened the game with a 26-6 run and opened the snd half with a 20-9 run. That's your 31-point lead. To the credit of the subs, instead of the game ending up a 12-point win, Ebede played 21 minutes and Whitehurst 11 and the team still held on to win by 27. And the scoring from the forwards was excellent and well-balanced.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 03:11 PM - Post#2427    
    In response to Howard Gensler

Just to tie into the Vince Curran post below, one of the points he made was that Oz made his first three 3 pointers, missed his next two and then began passing up wide open looks.

I think the others were shooting. Ibby is having trouble and Tim hit a few but continued to struggle with shots he normally knocks down. All 3 need to keep shooting when the opportunity presents itself. An open look is an open look.

 
SFlaQuaker 
Postdoc
Posts: 2427

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 03:32 PM - Post#2428    
    In response to AsiaSunset

I'm not convinced that Ibby will ever be a 40% guy from the arc, but if he's going to be playing in our system, he just has to keep shooting. The same goes for Oz.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 03:54 PM - Post#2429    
    In response to SFlaQuaker

You may be right, but Oz is at .450 from the arc right now and everyone assumed he couldn't shoot the ball. Like anything else it's important for players to develop a comfort level and a degree of confidence. I agree with you that Ibby must continue to look for and take his shot. He just needs to shoot mid thirties from distance. Daniel Ewing is at .364.

Hey - everybody on this board seemed amazed when Jan Fikiel made his 1st 3. He hit 160 of them his senior year in high school. Same ball, same hoop, same distance. The guy is the best long range shooter on the team. Despite the fact that he's no Sheldon Williams, a 6'10" player who can shoot like that is incredibly valuable in a program like ours. It just took way too long for us to figure that out because there clearly are other things he doesn't do all that well. But - as HG said, everyone of our players is imperfect. We just need to keep them out there long enough to benefit from the things they do well - and each of them has the ability to contribute if given a chance. Last year Jan yoyo'd between starter and 14th man on the bench. No wonder he couldn't make a shot.

 
Howard Gensler 
Postdoc
Posts: 4141

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 04:17 PM - Post#2430    
    In response to SFlaQuaker

I don't disagree, but I think Ibby stops jacking threes as he feels his legs start to go. Same as Oz. Begley, however, because the team is so dependent on him, doesn't have the luxury to stop shooting threes after he's tired, so 4-8 nights become 4-12 nights.

Just once, I'd like to see if there would be any difference in their through-the-game production if they got to rest a little earlier, instead of playing at least the first 10 minutes (oftentimes longer) without a break.

Let's say at the first TV time out, Whitehurst went in Ibby. Two minutes later Ibby comes in for Oz and they play until the second media time out. At the point, Ebede comes in for Begley and Oz comes back in for Whitehurst. Although it might be a sign of the apocalypse, Ebede, even after committing a turnover or two, plays until the next media time out, when Begley comes back in for Ibby who gets a 30-second rest before coming in for Ebede. Around the 4:00 media time out, Whitehurst gives Oz a 30-second rest.

The result (barring unexpected foul trouble or something weird): Begley plays 16 minutes but not longer than 8 minutes a time.Oz and Ibby play around 15:30 but not more than 8 minutes at a time and Ebede and Whitehurst each get regular 4+-minute stints of action but are not on the court at the same time.

Then do it again in the second half with the proviso that if Fred or David play like total buffoons (and I mean total buffoons, not commit a turnover) in the first half they run the risk of losing their second half minutes. And if the game is close and Oz isn't gasping for air, he doesn't come out at the 4:00 time out or Penn calls a time out to get him some extra rest. In a close game, if a somewhat rested Begley, Oz and Ibby are out their for the final 8 minutes, I like Penn's chances a lot better than if they're slumped over with their hands on their knees. But I also think that some potentially close games won't turn out to be that close once the three starters get rest and Ebede and Whitehurst get a little more comfortable in their roles.

 
SFlaQuaker 
Postdoc
Posts: 2427

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 05:27 PM - Post#2431    
    In response to Howard Gensler

First off, I wasn't talking about Oz's shooting percentage as much as the fact that he has to keep looking to shoot, because that's what the guards in our offense must do to succeed. As for Ibby getting tired, if he's going to be out there, he has to at least look for his shot if he isn't going to drive.

The Jan discussions seem to go in circles, but I guess the main thing is for him to concentrate on doing what he does best. With a bigger guy guarding him, he needs to spot up from 15 -20 feet. With a smaller guy, he can post up, but should look for a turnaround, not a move to the hoop. My frustrations with Jan's offense aren't that he doesn't have skills; he certainly does. The problem is that at times he gets away from what makes him successful. He simply is not good driving to the hoop or trying to take it strong in the post. When he sticks to what he does well, he's a strong offensive weapon.

I think it's clear to everyone on this board that changes must be made to the substitution pattern, and dozens of examples have been given. Now it's up to Dunphy to see the same thing, and I don't count last game as a sign of things to come; I'll wait for a game that isn't a blowout by the 4 minute mark.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 11:15 PM - Post#2432    
    In response to SFlaQuaker

There are many combinations that are fun to play around with. One I quite like is to move Tim to the 2 guard to relieve him of his multiple responsibilities and to let him concentrate on hitting threes over smaller defenders. Whitehurst would be my first back-up because Ibby doesn't show consistency offensivly there. Instead, I would put Ibby and Free at the 3 position where their speed and jumping ability can help enormously on penetrating and rebounding, and their defense on taller, slower players may prove to cause fits to their opponents.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-17-05 11:28 PM - Post#2433    
    In response to

You've made some good posts but this one makes no sense whatsoever, pennsive.

You can't just "announce" that Ibby is playing the 3 position and Begley is playing the 2 position unless you're in cahoots with the opposing team's coach. Why on earth is that coach going to guard Ibby with HIS 3 and Begley with HIS 2. No, he's going to put his 3 on Begs and his 2 on Ibby precisely because of the matchup problems you mentioned. Now if you occasionally want to play Os, Begs Ebede to force Begs to get a shorter guy, that might work. Similarly, if you want Os, David, and Ibby on the floor to get Ibby matchups against big forwards, that might work too (though I'm not convinced that the coach wouldn't just have his 3 on Whitehurst and, as I think of it, he may very well put his 2 on Ebede).

Regardless, you don't choose the positions the players play.

 
Howard Gensler 
Postdoc
Posts: 4141

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-18-05 12:08 AM - Post#2434    
    In response to

Also, no matter what you call them, if your one doesn't pick up Begley's assists and ball-handling responsibilities and your three doesn't pick up Begley's rebounds, Tim's still going to play the same way and have the same responsibilities.

My guess is that Tim would be content to let others take on some responsibility - but they have to be content to take it on.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Perimeter Play at Siena
01-18-05 03:10 AM - Post#2435    
    In response to Howard Gensler

Jeff and Howard, does this mean that Fran knows more about coaching than I do? Actually, to be serious for a moment, forcing their 3 to play our 2 puts them out of position defensively and would create a night's worth of problems for the bad guys, I would have thought. Hopefully, we beat Lafayette using matchups and substitutions that we can all agree were effective and protective of a well planned end-game strategy even if they did not jump out of our individual lineup schemes.

 
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