ericatbucknell
PhD Student
Posts: 1940
Reg: 01-22-06
|
02-03-07 09:48 PM - Post#29148
of course, in the real world, we are headed to the sweet sixteen. but in the hypothetical world, how would you feel about this team getting an invite to the national invitation tournament?
would you consider our season a success? a disappointment? would you want to hit the road to see us play?
just wondering.
The Bracket Bustin' Bison are Back!
Okay. First round streak BACK ON! |
|
BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-03-07 09:55 PM - Post#29149
In response to ericatbucknell
If we lost the PL final to HC, an NIT bid would be a decent consolation prize...
Speaking of which, I have a question. Let's say HC and us finish 13-1. HC would get the top seed based on the RPI tiebreaker. The NIT assures a bid to any league regular season winner not making the NCAAs. In the minds of the NIT, would Bucknell be considered a PL co-champ for the regular season, thereby assuring both HC and Bucknell of at least an NIT bid?
Having 2 PL teams in post-season play for the second time ever would be nice!
|
bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-03-07 11:57 PM - Post#29150
In response to BUFan
Good question re what constitutes a league champ. I suspect we'd be at the mercy of the committee. I also think the NIT is a good consolation prize, one in which we could probaby aspire to greater success than is realistic in the NCAA. I do not think there would be many teams in the NIT that we could not beat on a given day. That said, until we don't make the NCAAs, it is not time to think about the NIT.
|
ericatbucknell
PhD Student
Posts: 1940
Reg: 01-22-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 12:32 AM - Post#29151
In response to bison63
from the nits website:
Quote:
The regular-season champion of any NCAA Division I conference (as determined by the conference's tie-break protocol) not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship will secure an automatic qualification to the National Invitation Tournament.
The Bracket Bustin' Bison are Back!
Okay. First round streak BACK ON! |
|
Shot Clock
Masters Student
Posts: 883
Loc: Arlington VA
Reg: 01-27-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 12:36 AM - Post#29152
In response to bison63
Frankly, I couldn't care less about the NIT. I suppose it would be nice for the players, but few follow it (so I doubt it would help recruiting), and I seriously doubt any games of ours would be televised (unless you count the U and that is essentially not-televised) unless we advanced deep into it. We certainly wouldn't get any home games.
That being said....I do remember making a nice hunk of change betting Holy Cross on the money line vs Notre Dame in 2005. That's the only NIT moment I ever remember. 
As for the season being a disappointment...if you were asking me in November, I'd say yes. Now, particularly with Brown out, no.
| B.A. Bucknell University, 1993 |
|
BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 02:18 AM - Post#29153
In response to Shot Clock
While there's nothing like the Big Dance, an NIT bid would be a great accomplishment and a great opportunity. I loved the Holy Cross win in 2005. It was so very obvious that the Irish and their fans were waaaaaay to busy feeling sorry for themselves to ever win that game. The game was in South Bend and there was nobody there.
|
Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 02:45 AM - Post#29154
In response to Shot Clock
Quote:
Frankly, I couldn't care less about the NIT. I suppose it would be nice for the players, but few follow it (so I doubt it would help recruiting), and I seriously doubt any games of ours would be televised (unless you count the U and that is essentially not-televised) unless we advanced deep into it. We certainly wouldn't get any home games.
The new NIT, with specific rules for selection and home games, doesn't screw the little guy nearly as much as the old system did. Now the selection and seeding are similar to the NCAA, and the higher seed will normally get the home game. Having said that, if the Bison got in, they wouldn't be a very high seed so it would be tough to get a home game. The 2004-05 team, with the same system, might well have gotten one or more home games had they not won the PL tournament.
Of course I'd prefer the NCAA but I could definitely get excited about the NIT. With a healthy team, playing the way they are now, there is some chance they could reach the Final Four in MSG. I don't think there will be any teams in the NIT who are a lot better than the Bison are at their current form (with a healthy DB obviously).
BTW, I pointed out in another post that to qualify for the NIT, the Bison probably cannot lose more than one more regular season game (plus the finals of the PL). Hopefully we won't have to find out, as we instead wait to find out our NCAA seed.
|
mcgipp01
newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 02-04-07
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 04:15 AM - Post#29155
In response to Bison137
Hi everyone. I am new here, and this is my first post on this board. I believe the Bison will go to the NCAA tournament, let's not think about the NIT yet. Go Bucknell.
|
GoBison
Junior
Posts: 221
Reg: 01-22-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 04:23 AM - Post#29156
In response to mcgipp01
Quote:
Hi everyone. I am new here, and this is my first post on this board. I believe the Bison will go to the NCAA tournament, let's not think about the NIT yet. Go Bucknell.
A rock-solid first post. Welcome.
|
BisonKid
Sophomore
Posts: 154
Reg: 01-26-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 04:24 AM - Post#29157
In response to mcgipp01
While I'm still hopeful that the Bison will win the conference championship and get the NCAA bid, I wouldn't view the NIT tournament as a bad thing, particularly from the standpoint of the players who don't want their season to end.
I'm a bit confused on the NIT bid rules. If the Bison tie with Holy Cross in the regular season standings, don't both teams get the title of regular season Co-Champions? The tie-breaker is for purposes of determing who gets the home court in the tournament vs. who is the outright champ. For example, the Big East plays its tournament at MSG. For purposed of determining the seeds, ties are broken by RPIs. I don't think a team tied for 1st would loose a share of the regular season title by having a lower RPI- it would simply be the #2 seed in the tournament.
Thougths?
|
Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-04-07 02:34 PM - Post#29158
In response to BisonKid
Quote:
I'm a bit confused on the NIT bid rules. If the Bison tie with Holy Cross in the regular season standings, don't both teams get the title of regular season Co-Champions? The tie-breaker is for purposes of determing who gets the home court in the tournament vs. who is the outright champ. For example, the Big East plays its tournament at MSG. For purposed of determining the seeds, ties are broken by RPIs. I don't think a team tied for 1st would loose a share of the regular season title by having a lower RPI- it would simply be the #2 seed in the tournament.
Thougths?
You are correct that if the Bison tied HC for first, the PL would consider them co-champs regardless of who won the tiereaker for seeding purposes. However my guess is that the NIT will only give an automatic bid to whoever gets the top seed in its league tournament. Otherwise if you carry it out to its logical conclusion, what happens if a league has a four-way tie for first. Three NIT bids? Or, completely theoretically, an eight-way tie? In theory, you could have more than 32 teams with "automtic" bids to a 32-team tournament.
The above is just my guess and unfortunately it does not appear that the NIT has published any clarification.
|
MarkH
Freshman
Posts: 25
Reg: 02-01-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 04:49 PM - Post#29159
In response to Bison137
Let's take this one step further... Given our current RPI number, our seed in the NCAAs would be fairly low. We might be lucky to avoid a 16 seed, depending on what comes out of the lower conferences. Given that, another big upset like KU (while possible) is not likely.
The question is, would you rather be bounced in the 1st round of the NCAA or go the NIT final 4??
|
atlantabison
PhD Student
Posts: 1835
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Reg: 01-25-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 04:53 PM - Post#29160
In response to MarkH
Bottom line is if we are in the NCAA we are league champions again and that is the main goal. If we are in the NIT we did not win the tournament. So post-season successes aside, I would take the NCAA any day of the week. On the other side of the coin a final 4 NIT spot winning 3 post-season games would be extremely fun to watch.
|
Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 05:19 PM - Post#29161
In response to MarkH
Quote:
Let's take this one step further... Given our current RPI number, our seed in the NCAAs would be fairly low. We might be lucky to avoid a 16 seed, depending on what comes out of the lower conferences. Given that, another big upset like KU (while possible) is not likely.
The question is, would you rather be bounced in the 1st round of the NCAA or go the NIT final 4??
You could be too pessimistic on the seed the Bison would get. If they were to only lose one game the rest of the way and then win the PL tournament on HC's home court, the RPI would be in the 70's and the record would be 22-9, which would make them no worse than a 14 seed, maybe even a 13. If they lost two more regular season games and won the tourney, the RPI would probably be in the low 80's, which still would likely generate a 14 seed.
Of course, there's a lot of work to be done to get to that level, and the odds are against it without DB.
|
BUPilot
Masters Student
Posts: 641
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 02-11-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 07:07 PM - Post#29162
In response to Bison137
Before the season, I would have considered a berth in the NIT a definite disappointment. And yes, I realize the amazing statement that makes about how well the Bison have played the last 2 years with the accompanying increased expectations. That said, given the adversity the team's faced this season, the NIT would be a worthwhile accomplishment. I'd still much rather go to the NCAAs but I could definitely get excited for a strong run in the NIT.
I'm with Bison137 on the odds of us making the NIT. In fact I'll go one better (or worse). I seriously doubt that we can afford to lose any additional regular season games in addition to losing in the tournament and have any kind of chance at an NIT bid. Unfortunately, our valiant but ultimately unsuccessful struggles at the beginning of the season (and especially that terrible Central Arkansas loss) will come back to bite us with the RPI not justifying an NIT bid if we're not perfect the rest of the way to the tournament.
| Will Atlas shrug? Who is John Galt? |
|
Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 07:19 PM - Post#29163
In response to BUPilot
Here's a copy of a post I made in another thread that is relevant to our NIT chances. I have adjusted it slightly for the bracketbuster game:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are a couple of RPI scenarios:
1. RPIforecast does not include the PL tournament and has us losing two more PL games and ending with an 18-10 record. In this scenario, our RPI ends the regular season at # 106. Assuming we lose in the PL finals at HC, we would end up just under #100 and have a record of 20-11. Not good enough for the NIT.
2. If we lost one regular-season PL road game (instead of two as in the first case) and then lost the final at HC, we would have a record of 21-10 and an RPI just under #85. Probably on the NIT bubble, although a road win over a top 50 team (Xavier) and two other wins over top 100 teams (GMU, maybe, and HC) would help.
3. If we win them all and then lose at HC in the finals, we would be 22-9 with an RPI just under #80. I think that would give us a high probability of an NIT bid.
4. For the super-optimists, if we win out all the way through the PL tournament, giving us a record of 23-8, our RPI would end up around #72 - probably a 14 seed in the NCAA.
|
BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
|
Re: hypothetically, we could go to the nit...
02-05-07 10:11 PM - Post#29164
In response to Bison137
There is no way at all Bucknell would be a 15 or 16 seed if they made the tourney. Whoever makes it from the PL, whether it is HC or Bucknell, will be a 14, or possibly 13, seed.
|
