Anonymous
|
02-05-05 01:56 AM - Post#3283
JT3 took a lot of hits for bending the Tigers system--sometimes almost beyond recognition--but witnessing his new Georgetown team and old Princeton team move in such dramatically different directions you have to conclude the guy is a great coach.
Thompson always found a way to win the close league games. He got the most out of his team by thoughtful (which sometimes seemed borderline eccentric) substitutions. He stoked his players' confidence the way his old man did.
Scott seems to have destroyed what confidence this team had in ttself. How do you throw away a 9 point lead to Dartmouth in 4 minutes and lose by 8?
He needs to do some real soul searching about the way he is handling the reins and make some changes or things could get really ugly the way they did in the mid 1980s when Carril's temperment became unbearable and the program wobbled for a few years (ironically Scott was a player then).
I still think this team is capable of pulling it together and winning out but they can't do it without some serious mid-season corrections.
Go Tigers!
|
Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
|
After Further Consideration
02-05-05 03:06 AM - Post#3284
In response to
That post-season Ivy tournament sounds pretty good!
|
puck
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 04:07 AM - Post#3285
In response to
I've heard comments from some of the players about Thompson and player comments about Scot. The comments about JT111 were candid assessments; friendly, warm, relaxed. What was said about Scot was filled with anger, bitterness, frustration. I've gone to most of the away games and all the home games. What I see is, sometimes, a reluctance to take the shot because they're terrified. I've sat directly behind Scot and have watched his face contort, listened to his screaming player's names, his comments, and watched him in-their-faces when they've come off-court. Even I was exhausted by halftime. We've won games where players left the court uncertain and unsure. Team body-language says it all. Scot has to back-off. He's ruining it for these students who come out to play and love the game. Some of the seniors can't wait to finish this season...so they can get on with their lives. Joe Scot, wake up!
|
puck
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII and Joe ScoTT
02-05-05 04:21 AM - Post#3286
In response to puck
I'm sorry Joe Scot, for withholding your 2nd T.
|
bobmed
Sophomore
Posts: 129
Loc: Skillman, NJ
Reg: 09-03-02
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 04:48 AM - Post#3287
In response to puck
You have it right. I have always given to Friends of PU BBall. But not next year unless Scott changes his very ugly ways.
Bob Medina
|
Anonymous
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 05:29 AM - Post#3288
In response to bobmed
Before you get too excited, remember that JT III has a loss to Dartmouth on his resume as well. February 2001.
You might also remember that PU won the Ivy that year. Have faith, kids. You weren't expecting this, but Penn might have something unexpected waiting for them somewhere down the road. Odds go against it being tomorrow night, but I wouldn't expect this Penn team to run the table or anything.
-The Ghost
|
Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 11:14 AM - Post#3289
In response to puck
My observations are the same. I am strongly tempted to give away the rest of my season tickets, not because of the record or prospects, but because I can't stand watching Joe brutalize his players.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 11:38 AM - Post#3290
In response to Rob
Rob....a scant 5 weeks ago, you had this to say about Princeton's coach and fans:
"We continue to be hoping for progess on offense, but we are (mostly)very confident in our coach. Joe's offenses are different from John's, the reads are not simple, two freshmen have been starting, etc. Unlike a number of Penn fans, we(mostly)don't assume there are things we can see that our coach can't."
While I'm not going to pile on with respect to your comment about Penn fans, methinks your current observations might have more to do with a couple of painful losses than any dramatic change in coaching philosophy from 12/30. My opinion is only that Penn fans and Princeton fans are a lot more alike than you admit.
|
Anonymous
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 01:08 PM - Post#3291
In response to palestra38
Maybe its time for Howard Levy to step up and talk to Scott. It seemed like the coaches were a very close unit last few years. I have not been to any games so haven't witnessed the body language between coaches but is a lack of cohesiveness among the coaches part of the problem? I'm just grasping at straws here.
|
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2272
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 01:33 PM - Post#3292
In response to
I could not agree with you more. The three games I saw last year compared to the two I have seen this year, it is like watching two different teams. All the players except Venable seem hesitant and fearful. The other maddening aspect is that as the clock winds down, there is absolutely no midrange game, resulting in very poor shooting opportunities, something that plagued the Carrill teams as well. I thought JTIII was a gifted coach. Maybe JS will evolve to a more effective style, or maybe he will recruit players amenable to his current style, but I REALLY feal for the current team. I think they had a chance to have a special season, but it appears it will be mediocre at best.
|
puck
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 03:17 PM - Post#3293
In response to
I don't know how true it is or to what degree but I heard, this morning, that Shirley Tilghman is very concerned about Joe Scott's alleged treatment of the student-players and she's beside herself on how this should be handled (if true). Gary Walters, the director of Athletics, has much to explain if this continues and get's out to the media. This could effect recruitment for the future and even attitudes about student-life, in general, as rediculous as that might seem. Joe Scott take a cold shower and please get some help! It's not too late for everyone concerned to learn from this, come together, and turn this season around...now.
|
Anonymous
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 04:12 PM - Post#3294
In response to puck
Isn't it possible that this team is suffering cause Wallace is hurting and Schaen isn't with them? In the end it's the players who win or lose, not Scott.
|
light blue heavy
maximus
Posts: 164
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 04:19 PM - Post#3295
In response to
agreed RnB, I think we have a little fundamental attribution error going on here. Seriously: the talent level is way down from last year, with Wallace and Logan not at 100% and Shaen gone. Do you think Wallace fouls out in 17 minutes if he's healthy? I don't.
JTIII was one of the best in-game coaches around, and 14-0 might not have been a realistic goal. This team is really struggling, but I wouldnt put all the blame on scott. too many other things are going on.
|
Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 05:55 PM - Post#3296
In response to palestra38
P38, let me just say the earlier comments you quote focused on the offense. The current comment to which you are responding has nothing to do with the offense, or the loss. I was talking about Joe's abuse of his players, which was no less awful in the win over Yale than in the loss to Brown.
I find it hard to believe you can't accept the accuracy of my references to Penn fans who constantly criticise Dunphy regarding his failure to run more, failure to use the leapers more, etc. I think it was reasonable to say that Princeton fans do that sort of thing much less. Do you disagree?
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 07:13 PM - Post#3297
In response to Rob
Rob, if you asked me 2 weeks ago, I would have agreed with you unquestionably. However, in light of the scathing criticism of Scott emanating from the Princeton supporters after a couple of losses, when presumably Scott is coaching the same way he was a few weeks ago (btw, that was the point of my quoting your 12/30 post), I think a lot of it has to do with losing. You don't see nearly as much criticism of Dunphy when Penn wins the league.
I think since Princeton fans fully expected to win the league this year, there is a degree of shock at the 2 early losses that is causing people to lash out at the coach.
By the way, this is not meant to comment either way on Scott's relationship with his players.
|
Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 07:57 PM - Post#3298
In response to palestra38
You persist in telling me what my motives are. Don't. You know next to nothing about the current situation.
|
Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 08:00 PM - Post#3299
In response to
It is not about winning and losing. It is about abuse.
|
TigerDave
goober
Posts: 61
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 08:19 PM - Post#3300
In response to Rob
I have to say I'm very nervous about the statements being bandied about here. We have a couple of people alleging that Joe Scott is behaving unprofessionally and unethically by abusing his players (if he is indeed "abusing" them this is unprofessional and unethical). Now we have the unsubstantiated claim that Tilghman is "beside herself" over this.
In my view, this is a bit over the top. Given this is an anonymous bulletin board, I think we should be careful about accepting every rumor and accusation as fact. Let's not smear a coach's reputation without having a full and accurate understanding of the situation.
|
Anonymous
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 08:33 PM - Post#3301
In response to Rob
Rob, let's be fair here. P38 said nothing about your motive(s). The situation is quite simple -- no one, including you, has commented on this board in any negative way about Joe Scott until this Dartmouth loss. At minimum, it is odd that Scott seems to be held on a pedestal until he loses one game he should have won. Did he suddenly become a bad coach? Of course not.
With respect to his relationships with his players, did they suddenly change last night in Hanover? It would be hard to believe.
The apparent truth is Princeton fans are equally willing to criticize their coach as Penn fans. The difference is that we do it all the time, win or lose, while you guys only do it when you lose. And boy do you do it when you lose!
|
Anonymous
|
Re: New respect for JTIII
02-05-05 09:16 PM - Post#3302
In response to TigerDave
Nervous isn't the word. Appalled might be a better adjective. Like rats escaping a sinking ship.
|
