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Username Post: Please, everyone, relax.        (Topic#614)
Anonymous 

02-06-05 05:22 AM - Post#3462    

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Please, everyone, just relax about the coach. I know that there were "pundits" predicting a 14-0 season. But let's face it, the only reason Princeton's RPI was so high was that we played road games against good teams. But we didn't WIN them (Syracuse, Temple(?),Duke, UTEP). And if I'm not mistaken, going into the Ivy season Princeton was dead last among the Ivies in 3-point percentage (although admittedly not so bad this weekend in that regard). LAST. So let's not delude ourselves into thinking that this team was as good as 1991 or 1998 going into the season.

Second, in my humble opinion Princeton *underachieved* under JTIII by losing against some really bad non-conference teams (Florida International!). Many times since 2002 I thought that Princeton looked undisciplined on the floor and that JTIII tried to overcoach, breaking the rhythm of play. It will take some time for Scott to get the right player-system match that works for his program. He doesn't have that now.

Isn't this the first year in which the entire team is Thompson recruits? Wasn't Persia a Carmody recruit?

Third, if I played 2 or 3 years under a friendly and laid-back coach, then of course I'd be a little shell-shocked at playing for Scott. It would be a tough adjustment, no different than when you get a new boss. But when you do get a new boss, it is *your* responsibility to adapt. That's just life. So maybe, just maybe, the problem is with the players and not the coach. (Didn't Princeton blow leads last year too?). And I don't buy the argument that a fan can observe in-game demeanor and think he knows the inside story (see Tierney, Bill).

Fourth--and I beg of all of you to at least consider this suggestion--unless you are willing to sign your name to a post, let's try not to spread unsubstantiated rumors about abuse, disgruntlement, players' stength of character, or anything else that probably happens between player and coach behind closed doors. Be critical of tactics, system of play, game decisions, recruting mistakes, anything that happens on the court. But I doubt any of us (including players' parents!) *really* knows what Scott's relationship to his players is like. I'm not the moderator of this board, and I can't tell any of you what to post, but maybe a little empathy can go a long way here (and thus endeth the sermon).

I know these players play hard, but at the end of the game, its players, not coaches, that put the points on the board. I've never met Joe Scott or any of the players, but I just can't believe a coach should take all of the responsibility for this collapse. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Michael Braun '92

 
Brian Martin 
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Brian Martin
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 06:23 AM - Post#3463    
    In response to

Why the JTIII criticism? He took the mess that Carmody left behind and won the league his first year. As he rebuilt the team, even with the Gloger saga, the transfer of Martin, Logan's injuries, they tied for the title in 2002 despite being obviously weaker than Penn, and then lost only to an excellent Penn team and a very good Brown team in 2003, before winning the league by a 3-game margin last season. And your memory of JTIII is Florida International? Is that an Ivy League game? That was not a 13-1 Ivy champ returning 2 All-Ivy seniors and most everyone else. The 2002 FIU game was game three of the return of Gloger after 2 years, game three of Wallace as starting center, and I'll just say that one or two other players that JTIII had to rely on back then had serious defensive issues. Yes, JTIII's teams had some disappointing non-league losses, but they did not drop games to inferior teams in the Ivy League. Defend Scott if you must, but there is no need to criticize JTIII.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 01:46 PM - Post#3464    
    In response to Brian Martin

Thanks, Michael, for this excellent, thoughtful post. As I've said elsewhere, whether you sign your name or not or whether or not you fancy yourself an "insider" to the team, I don't see the sense in spreading these kinds of rumors around the internet. They will inevitably hurt the program and may be unjustly harming the reputation of a highly-regarded coach. If people are so concerned, they should do something that will actually make a difference - write or call Princeton's AD or President. They can then act if they have sufficient cause for action.

 
T71 
Sophomore
Posts: 161

Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 01:59 PM - Post#3465    
    In response to

Hear hear! Excellent post.

 
brownbruin 
Freshman
Posts: 50

Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 03:49 PM - Post#3466    
    In response to

Interesting to read all this sensitivity from Princeton fans about protecting Scott from criticism for allegedly berating players and otherwise being an apparently VERY tough taskmaster. Where was all this sensitivity when numerous posters were mercilessly bashing Glen Miller for berating his players, resulting in a couple of personnel departures last year from the Brown team? From reading some of those posts, one would have thought that Miller made Bob Knight look like Mother Theresa. Now, some people will say that the bashing was over Miller's sometimes antagonistic relationship with the refs, but the bashing extended to the allegedly rough way he appeared to treat his players. Judge the coaches by the results they achieve. Gentle coaxing is fine in biddy basketball. It doesn't necessarily motivate and engender excellence at more elite levels.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 04:02 PM - Post#3467    
    In response to brownbruin

Quote:

Judge the coaches by the results they achieve. Gentle coaxing is fine in biddy basketball. It doesn't necessarily motivate and engender excellence at more elite levels.




Neither does criticizing your players constantly.

This is the Ivy League, if we're not gonna have scholarships, we can at least win like gentlemen. Finally, Penn fans are the ones who criticize Brown and Miller. Princeton fans didn't care so they didn't step in. But I think you'll have alot of trouble finding a ton of criticism at the way he (Miller) treats his players. We mainly just can't stand his histrionics.

 
Phil 
Freshman
Posts: 75
Phil
Loc: Princeton
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 04:20 PM - Post#3468    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Right Jeff. One of the reasons Pete gave when he retired was that his way of motivating didn't work so well as it did in former years and the psyche of today's students is different. It's also possible that what works at Air Force doesn't necessarily work in the Ivies, it's a learning experience for both sides and with the change over occurring when it did any changes had to be instituted during the season which obviously leaves no margin for error.

 
Brian Martin 
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Brian Martin
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Please, everyone, relax.
02-06-05 04:39 PM - Post#3469    
    In response to Phil

I have not seen Scott's team in person yet, but will this weekend, so I make no comment or characterization about his yelling, but I do quarrel with the characterization of Carril. I played baseball and all winter we would walk across Jadwin to go to our indoor practices. I saw a lot of basketball practices as well as a lot of games. Carril yelled but I did not think it was abusive. The tone and expression were more exhasperation or disappointment than anger. He also referred to players as Tommy, Billy, Frankie, Bobby, etc., like a Dad talking to a son, which I found interesting at the time.

 
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