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Username Post: Penn Recruiting on the Board        (Topic#70)
Anonymous 

11-27-04 01:15 PM - Post#304    

I don't just hang out at this board. There, I admit it. I like to read and post at a Philadelphia Phillies message board as well. Anyway, occasionally there will be off-topic posts on Penn State football and St. Joe's basketball. What I'm struck by is just how much talk is devoted to recruiting and rumors and stories about how student sections will direct cheers at recruits watching from the sidelines and the like. So I wonder, why is that different here than on there? Why is disseminating information about recruits viewed so negatively here where we have to hold everything very close to the vest?

I have a few theories and I'm interested in what people think:
1. The situations are not different at all. There are some people that are REALLY in the know at PSU just like at Penn, it's just that the PSU insiders make up a very very small portion of the fans that frequent message boards as compared to Penn. Therefore, there are alot of fans at PSU that care about recruiting that are not "in the know" compared to Penn where seemingly the only people who care about recruits are "in the know" and can't discuss these things openly. Any Penn fan not in the know probably doesn't care about recruiting anyway.

2. Because there is a very real chance that the students we're interested in, can't get accepted to Penn, we're more cautious in talking about names because we don't want to embarrass current or future recruits. I can see SOMEthing to that, but given we normally do find out that so-and-so wasn't really admittable, I'm not sure this holds water. And I read about a couple guys PSU was interested in that supposedly don't have the grades to get in. I mean, just how much shame IS there in not being able to get into an Ivy League school?

3. Because we're not a top school nor are we often interested in top recruits, few recruiting services cover our recruiting efforts or the stories about our recruits. Therefore, less info gets disseminated into the public realm and there is less to talk about on the message board without giving up inside info. This could very well be the theory that's most credible. Perhaps the info I'm seeing discussed about PSU football or SJU football is all info available at Hoopscoop or the Insiders or whatever and since I'm just not used to seeing this for Penn players publically, I'm thinking this is inside information.

Let's be clear, I'm not asking for more info from insiders. Nor am I asking that they "explain" themselves. I just found myself reading a thread on a Phillies board by about 12 very interested and enthusiastic Penn State fans about their recruiting efforts for next year and I found myself a little jealous. I would like that type of atmosphere where we're running scenarios of recruits a year, two years out and how they'll fit into the team, etc.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn Recruiting on the Board
11-27-04 04:17 PM - Post#305    
    In response to

Your theories fail to account for the most important difference: the LOI, or lack thereof. All discussion at scholarship schools falls out of the signing period deadlines, which have their own, year-long rhythm separate from the basketball season itself.


 
Anonymous 

Re: Penn Recruiting on the Board
11-27-04 05:01 PM - Post#306    
    In response to

Penn has gotten commitments from four players so far: Aron Cohen, Brennan Votel, Tommy McMahon and Kevin Egee. The Quakers are still waiting for a decision from Cam Lewis. A 6-7 forward from New York's Trinity Pawling, Reid Wittman, was at the Drexel game so it's probably safe to assume there's interest on both sides there.

Of the four commitments, McMahon is the most high profile and probably the most likely to step in and make an impact. He's 6-7, can shoot, had legit interest from UCLA and is the recruit coming in closest to Begley in terms of how he plays. Since Begley is graduating it seems likely he will get a long look at a perimeter spot.

Cohen is a 6-1/6-2 PG from Michael Jordan's school, Abington Friends. He's a nice playmaker, gritty, can shoot it and has a good rep in the Philly area as a kid who can play. He has little national rep because he plays at Abington Friends and he has been interested in Penn for a while so there's no cache in a scouting service touting him. People in the know describe him as a bigger version of Klatsky. Probably won't play much as a freshman but could be an effective backup as a soph and a solid starter/backup by his junior year.

Votel isn't spoken about much because no one (aside frm the coaches) knows that much about him. He was tipped toward Penn by former Covington (Ky.) Catholic Quaker Sean Dineen and he's believed to be a Zoller type - a 6-7 forward who can both bang and shoot the jumper. He had a very solid junior year and helped lead CovCath to a very successful season. Had he stayed uncommitted he probably would have gotten some mid-major scholarship offers. Now that he's committed, there's not much reason for the scouting services to track his progress so unless you want to read about his exploits in the local paper, he probably won't make much news until the state tournament.

Egee has also been playing under the radar. He had a good junior year and Ridley (usually a football school) was about as good as they had been since the Matt Blundin era. They should also be very good this year. Since both he and Cohen are local I'm sure people on this board will go see them play. But Egee did not play summer AAU ball so the tipsters haven't seen much of him. He did play a lot with Penn players over the summer so they've seen a lot of him and they say he's very good. It's almost impossible to find a sleeper these days, but Egee might be one. He's a lanky 6-2 who can shoot, pass and really defend. Unless everyone is wrong about him, he'll almost definitely see some time as a freshman and be a strong contender for the starting PG spot after that.

A lot has been written about Cam Lewis, but a lot of it is wrong. Street & Smith's has him as a highly-regarded 7-footer, but he's only 6-7/6-8. If he were seven feet tall he would be awesome and he wouldn't be choosing between Penn and Columbia. Lewis is prepping this year at Exeter and if he develops a little range on his shot to go with his rebounding and inside game, he should be a solid player for either Ivy. This notion that he's the next Onyekwe is a bit premature.

Don't know much about Wittman other than he can shoot.

If there's some secret stud out there I don't know about him. There may be one other big guy the Quakers are looking at but at the moment, I don't think he's admissible.

 
nychoops 
Junior
Posts: 239

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Penn Recruiting on the Board
11-27-04 07:08 PM - Post#307    
    In response to

Wittman is a player I have seen a few times. I was not aware that Penn was one of his choices. He started at Loyola in NYC and left in , I believe his Soph yr. He is a legit 6-7 and plays both the 3-4. He has a good feel for the game and is a smart player. Good shooter and solid rebounder I know some high majors(Uva,Vanderbilt) were eyeing him. He would be one of the top recruits in thre league.

 
Redfish 
Masters Student
Posts: 767
Redfish
Loc: under a bridge in Phoenix...
Reg: 11-26-04
Re: Penn Recruiting on the Board
11-27-04 08:19 PM - Post#308    
    In response to

Actually it's because most of us know absolutely nothing about any recruits, potential or otherwise, and half of those who do post, get their information from Google (except for BRF, of course).

 
Anonymous 

Re: Penn Recruiting on the Board
11-27-04 08:29 PM - Post#309    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Chip,
I basically see what you're saying but couldn't it be argued that A. we have that rhythm with the idea of early acceptance/reg decision periods or B. that even if we don't have that going on, the idea that a recruit could commit at any time means that we could/should be talking recruits all the time?

Maybe we don't engage in idle speculation about recruits given we don't see them as much since they're not high profile and aren't appearing in mcdonald's all america games or other high school all star games that are occasionally televised?

Howard, thanks again for a very illuminating post but I just want to stress that I wasn't complaining about lack of info, just wishing there was more discussion.

 
Ramfan 
newbie
Posts: 38

Reg: 11-28-04
Wittman
11-28-04 12:43 AM - Post#310    
    In response to

Reid Wittman is about 6'7'' 190 lbs, so obviously pretty skinny, but shoots it well, and is a decent athlete. His face-up skills are probably what makes him most attractive. Has gotten solid mid-major type interest, if I'm not mistaken, but has been pretty sure that he wanted to go Ivy for some time.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Special Ivy Recruiting Issues
11-29-04 11:05 AM - Post#311    
    In response to Ramfan

Part of problem, as well, is that the pool of Ivy recruits is so limited that coaches are very concerned (more than in other conferences) about internecine poaching so try to keep all except the universally known close to the vest. You have seen that repeatedly this year where the first time a recruit appears on the ib board, it's as a commit. This is not reflective of a bad job by this board, or even of the myriad "scoopsources," it's concern about surfacing a recruit who may have stayed under the radar. Obviously, this is harder to do in Northeast or Cal, but it is part of the very difficult jobs Ivy coaches have to do. It's not just the competition for the recruit. It's the identification of the potential contributor without alerting other Ivies, and finding the guy who is otherwise not well known. While it's tough for Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10 as they beat each other up for nation's top 200, at least everyone knows about them. What's harder is for nation's 500-1000 and, after vetting on grades and scores, trying to identify who has the potential to be a player at our level and then not surface that name too soon and face getting beat to him. This is less an issue, I think, for Penn and Princeton, but the non-P and non-HY schools, confront this regularly where showing interest in a kid alerts the conmpetition to someone they may have missed and he gets targeted, and potentially plucked, by the other schools.

 
TomPittsburgh 
maximus
Posts: 538
TomPittsburgh
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Reg: 11-28-04
Re: Special Ivy Recruiting Issues
11-29-04 03:10 PM - Post#312    
    In response to

I have always found most of the Penn recruiting information printed on this message board and on the Ivy League football board to be highly accurate. Posts are not made until the info is solid. However, I am still dismayed that posts made it look as though Clifton Dawson -- the best running back in the Ivy League, would attend Penn. Unfortuntely, Dawson ended up at Harvard. Oh well, you can't win them all!

 
pennhoops 
Postdoc
Posts: 2470

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Special Ivy Recruiting Issues
11-29-04 05:56 PM - Post#313    
    In response to TomPittsburgh

Actually, Dawson had given indications that he would transfer from NW to Penn before he was cleared by Harvard admissions. If they had said no, he would have been at Penn.

 
TomPittsburgh 
maximus
Posts: 538
TomPittsburgh
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Reg: 11-28-04
Re: Special Ivy Recruiting Issues
11-30-04 06:38 PM - Post#314    
    In response to pennhoops

now that would have been a great addition to the football team. however, we have been pretty lucky with transfers in recent years so guess we can't complain that harvard gets a good one.

 
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