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Username Post: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06        (Topic#723)
SFlaQuaker 
Postdoc
Posts: 2427

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 04:36 PM - Post#4433    
    In response to

While I would have agreed with you a month ago Chuck, not any more. I think Oz is fine at the point, and has been playing it more than Begley of late. He has a good first step, and just needs to improve his finishing. The real hole is a consistent outside shooter.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 04:59 PM - Post#4434    
    In response to SFlaQuaker

SFQ, I just don't see it...though, I see people continuing to say that Oz has game. He's shooting 39%, 2 assists/g and 2.3 TO's per game. That's a PG? I also disagree with the notion that some people have, that Oz can actually beat people off the dribble. I've seen him able to penetrate seams in the zone (and then miss the layup), but have rarely if ever seen him actually beat anyone off the dribble who was covering him man-to-man. Throw out his games against Siena and Laugh-aye-ette (two weakest teams on the schedule) and his shooting % drops to 35%!!! He seems to dribble into double teams with regularity and seems to make most of his outside shots from the corner (not so great a position for a PG to be in if the shot doesn't fall). My feeling is Oz is a mediocre 2 that doesn't bring a whole lot on defense. If Penn is going to improve next year (rather than decline), some serious PG play and outside shooting is going to have to appear. Nothing Oz has done in 2 1/2 years makes me think he's the guy who's going to deliver that.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23199

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 05:23 PM - Post#4435    
    In response to

Sort of agree. Even though Oz is no great shakes, if he comes back next year, he's going to be give Penn a lot of important minutes. His 5th year leadership will be crucial, especially with a bunch of young guys behind him. I wouldn't be shocked to see his game really elevant next year.

 
SFlaQuaker 
Postdoc
Posts: 2427

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 05:40 PM - Post#4436    
    In response to 10Q

Okay, let's look at it this way: Oz and Ibby will both be 35+ guys next year, whether we like it or not. Who would you prefer to be handling the ball? I'd go with Oz.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 06:03 PM - Post#4437    
    In response to

I wouldn't be quite that hard on Zoller. He's actually outperformed or matched Pettinella offensively in most statistical aspects of the game. As for Danley & Pettinella, I think we'll see more of it with Fikiel gone, as there won't be an obvious 4th big man who can stretch the defense a bit. My question is whether Lewis or Votel is good enough initially for us to stick with this 4 big man rotation that I think has worked quite well.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 06:27 PM - Post#4438    
    In response to

Chuck -- take a deeper look at the numbers in terms of the outside shooting. Oz is at 42% on 3s for the year, and has hit a 3 in 17 straight games. He's actually shot it better than Begley. And since you cut the numbers, I'll cut them another way. After a slow start, he's at 45% from 3 from Temple on.

I also totally disagree with your impression of his defense. Our perimeter defense has been better than last year b/c Oz and Ibby are such a difficult combination, particularly when they're switching and giving the opponent's best guard the two different looks. I think there's an argument that he's a better defender than Ibby right now.

So yes, I think Oz deserves to start next year and will play well. I suspect he'll be the PG, but since he's our best outside shooter he might in essence play the role Begley plays this year.

 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 06:37 PM - Post#4439    
    In response to SomeGuy

Let me put it another way, if Oz regains his confidence enough to take it to the hoop with the game on the line consistently, I see little difference between him and Toole as a PG. Neither one was completely suited to it, but it can work. Besides, Oz is a better defender than Toole was.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 07:31 PM - Post#4440    
    In response to Streamers

I think Oz is a good bit more athletic than Toole, too, for what it's worth (and a good bit more athletic than he appeared last year).

 
Howard Gensler 
Postdoc
Posts: 4141

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 08:14 PM - Post#4441    
    In response to SomeGuy

For argument's sake, let's assume that Penn hangs on to win the title this year. Since Fran Dunphy has been the coach, that would be 8 titles and the number of times that Fran has won a title and returned his starting backcourt and not won the title the following year? That would be never.

Sure Begley will be a big loss (and Fikiel will be a surprisingly big loss also) but replacing guys who graduate is part of the gig. If you take the view that I do, that Penn always has talent, the difference between success and lack thereof is making the talent pieces fit. Last year, although Schiffner was THE GUY and the team lost Chubb and Copp (three starters) the team is actually better this year. Some of us argued last year that you couldn't play Copp, Begley and Schiffner together because they all had similar games and could only guard similar guys. This year, with their graduation, the team's defense is way better (and Copp and Schiff were good defenders - but not as good as Oz and Ibby) and the team is much more versatile offensively.

Basketball abhors a vaccum. Someone will get Begley's minutes. Someone will get Fikiel's and everyone returning will be a year older and a year stronger. If Ibby improves his shot over the summer the way Michael Jordan did he has the potential to be unguardable. If Oz shows as much improvement from this year to next as he did from last year to this, that will be a very solid offensive backcourt that plays great D.

Additionally, this year everyone defers to Begley. Next year they won't. Roles will change and guys will have to step up. As Danley continues to improve his mid-range and outside game, the odds of him playing with Pettinella increase. If Votel is as good as he's been playing, He could step into Jan's minutes immediately.

To me, the fascinating battle will be between Ebede (the senior), Franklin (the athletic transfer) and McMahon (the star recruit shooter) at the 3 or whether Fran plays Whitehurst and goes three guards. The other interesting battle will be between Grandieri, Egee and Cohen for minutes behind Oz.

But first let's get through this year.

 
Anonymous 

Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 08:55 PM - Post#4442    
    In response to SomeGuy

Quote:

And since you cut the numbers, I'll cut them another way. After a slow start, he's at 45% from 3 from Temple on.




I suppose we could go round and round on this...such as: last 8 games his overall shooting % is a whopping 34% and 3pt % 35%. So, after a slow start and a hot few games the law of averages is catching up?

Oz is an OK player...I just don't like him handling the ball a whole lot and think that if the team has to rely on his outside shooting its in trouble.

FWIW, having said all this about Oz, I will predict that the Chuck Daly reverse jinx will take effect tonight and tomorrow and Oz will have outstanding games!! Last time I threw a hissy fit about Dunphy the result was this long winning streak...last year I had a couple of fits about Copp and Chubb and both times they produced big games right afterward. So, when Oz lights it up tonight you know the magic still works.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-18-05 08:57 PM - Post#4443    
    In response to

Chuck -- I've started to suspect this of both you and PennPal. You're not really curmudgeons -- you're just highly superstitious fans trying to help us all out via the reverse jinx. Keep up the good work.

 
Ancient Quaker 
Masters Student
Posts: 647
Ancient Quaker
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-19-05 02:30 AM - Post#4444    
    In response to Howard Gensler

Howard, you're the only one in this thread to cite an important point -- the fact that Oz improved tremendously from last year to this year. In fairness, having never seen him play prior to his injury, I don't know that he's actually improved, as much as healed.

In any event, as this season started, Oz was going through a difficult transition period -- recovering from a serious injury while being thrust into a much more prominent role than he had last year. Since the Temple game, he has played extremely well, particularly on defense. As was noted elsewhere, it's arguable that he is a better one-on-one defender than Ibby right now -- not for steals, obviously, but for his ability to keep his man in front of him and (generally) to not foul.

There is every reason to believe (or at least hope) that his improvement (or recovery) is not complete, and that he can take it yet another level next year. I certainly hope he does, because there is not much behind him, Ibby and Whitehurst. It's unfair to expect much from Cohen or Egee next year, and Grandieri will be coming back from a serious injury as well.

Sure hope Kach comes back. Have you heard anything that you can share with us?

 
Anonymous 

Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-19-05 02:42 AM - Post#4445    
    In response to SomeGuy


Bingo SG!

 
Howard Gensler 
Postdoc
Posts: 4141

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-19-05 02:07 PM - Post#4446    
    In response to Ancient Quaker

Haven't heard anything about Kach. His possible return would be as mysterious as his decision to quit.

Depth, however, will not be a problem. Finding time for all the guys who can play will be the problem. There are seven guys coming in next year (5 freshman, Franklin and Grandieri) and none of them are dogs. In fact you could probably play them as a team and have a mid-level Ivy squad.

A serious injury or illness could of course change the depth chart, but right now you can pencil Oz and Ibby in for 30-32 minutes in blowouts and 36-40 in close games. And you've got Grandieri and Cohen to pick up backup PG minutes or you could move Ibby over or you could play Whitehurst there in a pinch. Backing up Ibby you've got Whitehurst, Egge, Ebede in a pinch, and Grandieri could also play the two spot. At the three, the battle will be between the three-guard lineup (Oz, Ibby, Whitehurst - which may have made some progress last night), and a three-man wing-man rotation of Ebede, Franklin and McMahon. But since Fran doesn't tend to rotate guys, one of them will probably win the job and the other two will sit. Fran does love seniors (good for Ebede) but he also loves consistency and hates turnovers (bad for Ebede). Fran loves shooters (good for McMahon) but only a handful of freshman have been impact players (bad for McMahon). Franklin is the wild card. He's not as pure a shooter as McMahon and he doesn't intuitively know the game like Begley, but he is a tremendous athlete and defender with a decent jumper. If he comes back with a better-than-decent jumper he's going to be tough to keep out of the lineup. Whether he gets serious minutes or sub minutes, I hope at some time we get to see Ibby, Whitehurst and Franklin on the court together. Penn's perimeter D would be awesome.

At the 4, Zoller should start with Danley moving over occasionally and Votel the wild card (he sure sounds good). Danley will start at the 5 but I think Ryan will get more time as Danley plays some 4 - and if Ryan could become a 60 percent FT shooter it would open up more end game situations for him. I can't see the Lewis I saw in the fall taking time away from the three returnees (and Votel seems to be playing better against solid competition) but by October who knows. No idea if Majette is coming back (he has another year of eligibility) but I remain a fan. Nameir is BIG, can jump and has a little touch on his jumper. If you saw him next to Big Ben, he towered over him. He's just not as polished as Danley or as quick as Pettinella, but he would definitely play for every other Ivy team (except last-place Princeton) and I'd love to see him get a little bit of a shot at some point.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Quaker Point Guard for '05-06
02-19-05 05:24 PM - Post#4447    
    In response to Howard Gensler

Quote:

No idea if Majette is coming back (he has another year of eligibility) but I remain a fan. Nameir is BIG, can jump and has a little touch on his jumper. If you saw him next to Big Ben, he towered over him. He's just not as polished as Danley or as quick as Pettinella, but he would definitely play for every other Ivy team (except last-place Princeton) and I'd love to see him get a little bit of a shot at some point.




FWIW, I thought Nameir looked pretty smooth on his one made FG last night, and also looked like he had an idea of what he was doing on defense - nearly had a steal when he went after a pass to the point, and didn't get caught out of position when he did so.


 
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