seas2k4
Junior
Posts: 274
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-20-05 02:26 AM - Post#4660
... tonight was not too much fun to watch.
We really did get out-worked, looked flat, and Yale made some huge shots. A couple thoughts:
1- Why was Jan in the game? He looked awful in the first half, then got more minutes in the second- at one point he was matched up against Draughan, and on successive possesions got called for a foul, got beat off the dribble (leading to Flato's three from 24 feet), and had a TO.
2- Oz was invisible. Seems like when he doesn't hit a couple shots early he can tend to fade away some... he has to keep his head in the game.
3- Mark was great, keeping us in the game... playing hard, grabbing boards, and providing some much needed offense.
4- Not going to comment on Begs... he is human, after all, and was bound to have a rough game. I am more discouraged that he didn't get off many shots than if he had gotten them off and just wasn't hitting. I didn't really focus on how they were guarding him off the ball, but it was dissapointing that we didn't adjust at all to get him more involved.
5- Good atmostphere at the game, but man are those Yale student sections obnoxious (I am sure not all of them are, but as a whole). It is one thing to try to taunt the other team and impact the game- but these guys were going after the band! Give me a break. What a poor representation of the school, I hope our fans don't give off that same image.
Also, for those who watched on TV, how good was Hughes' dunk? It looked pretty outrageous in person. Would have liked to see Free get a couple minutes today, but not sure it would have made much of a difference in the end.
-Seas
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Anonymous
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 02:48 AM - Post#4661
In response to seas2k4
Neither Oz or Begley had any legs tonight. So Whitehurst gets a few minutes in the first half and Ebede sees zip.
I guess last night must have proved to Dunphy that a rested backcourt just won't work.
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Anonymous
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 04:40 AM - Post#4662
In response to
Hughes’ dunk was very strong – even better offensive set to get him in that position. But I would say Ibby’s three dunks over the weekend were equally impressive.
After Yale retook the lead, I thought each Penn player got away from the unselfish offense that was central to the 11 wins, and each was trying to do to much on their own on the offensive end – a lot of drives though the lane, but very little finishing.
Can someone explain why our opponents seem to score at the end of the first half, usually a three, and we have the the lack of execution like tonight.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 05:31 AM - Post#4663
In response to seas2k4
Quote:
... tonight was not too much fun to watch.
2- Oz was invisible. Seems like when he doesn't hit a couple shots early he can tend to fade away some... he has to keep his head in the game.
-Seas
Oz was under the weather this weekend, which is why he sat out the final 18:00 on Friday night. Perhaps he caught whatever Ibby had the weekend before?
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 05:52 AM - Post#4664
In response to 13otto
The game was just downright painful. I also cringe when Ibby takes 3s-- that just isn't his shot. Tonight our D really had no answer for Martin and Draughan. Gamboa looked pretty hot from 3. Looking ahead we have the NY Roadtrip next weekend.
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The Willow
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 05:58 AM - Post#4665
In response to seas2k4
1- because Zoller had foul issues, and/or nothing else was working.
2- Oz is sick.
3- Agreed. All the guys were working hard tonight, but it seemed like Mark was the one who stepped up and tried to make the game his once it was clear Begs was being shut down at every turn.
4- It seemed to me that their defense was everywhere at once. Begs was being played hard.
5- Bring 'em on. I brought the "Penn Band- UR All Ugly" sign home with me. If these guys want to taunt us instead of watching the game, more power to them, as it just shows their team how little some of their student fans care about them. (Other choice taunts: "3rd tier Ivy"- We're 2nd Tier, thank you very much... "Overrated"- no, that was Princeton. We weren't supposed to win this year... and a sign reading "Fran Needs a Drinks"- apparently Yale isn't known for its spelling) Was less amused when they decided to follow us to our bus and stand in front of the doors so we couldn't leave. I'd make a comment about gracious winning, but I'd probably just be accused of being a sore loser. 
And speaking of dunks, Steve did a 360 dunk in warm-up that had me howling.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 11:31 AM - Post#4666
In response to The Willow
Missed all but the 1st 15 minutes because we went out, but it felt like Yale was playing well. I had a feeling we might stumble last night although it sounds like we got thrashed after i turned it off.
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CUSequence
Freshman
Posts: 29
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 12-06-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 01:43 PM - Post#4667
In response to The Willow
Much as I don't endorse taunting the band (as a former band member)...my recent trip to the Palestra (Cornell game) also resulted in personal taunting by the some student sections, and people blocking my group from seeing the game (we were in our ticketed seats, by the way). Add to that the fact that the usher refused to prevent us being cursed at, and I would argue the Palestra fans that night were just as bad as what you describe in Yale.
That being said, the focus at these games should be on the GAME. Not the band or random fans...unless they bring it on. It's one thing to shout overrated for no good reason, and another to pick on fellow fans.
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seas2k4
Junior
Posts: 274
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 02:24 PM - Post#4668
In response to The Willow
1- Mark had one foul in the first half, and didn't have three fouls until there was under 10 left in the game. Picked up his fourth with 4:20 left in the game. Not really a factor in the PT decisions. (unless the play by play is wrong on pennathletics)
2- Regarding Oz, like I said, this wasn't a comment isolated to this weekend. The three games prior he had more turnovers (7) than made field goals (4-22 overall). Include this weekend, and he is 6 for his last 32. But, more importantly, I hope he feels better soon.
-seas
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-20-05 03:27 PM - Post#4669
In response to AsiaSunset
Let's give the Bulldogs their due. I just finished watching the game. Penn was a bit flat (Saturday syndrome and the flu bug, perhaps) but they have won several games this year (see; last weekend) playing at this level. The fact is that the league has improved top-bottom. Just about any Ivy team is dangerous enough at home to beat Penn on any given night. It was nice to think about running the table, but Yale was just not having any of it. Shutting Begley out helps. I think we are back to the 12-2 projections and what that brings with it.
BTW; Flato looks like the real deal.
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Anonymous
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 03:53 PM - Post#4670
In response to seas2k4
I was at the game last night. We were flat(except for Mark and Ibby), slow (except for Ibby and Mark). Yale was quicker to the ball all night, and Draughan ate Tim's lunch every time down the court. As a lifelong Penn and Yankee fan, I see a number of similarities. Dunphy and Torre both have the respect of their players, have a steady hand that fans can criticize for lack of creativity and have a fairly single-minded game plan which they follow over the season which invariably yields a large number of championships but which looks fairly lame when the other team has their number in a particular game or series. For example, most years the Yankees don't steal a lot of bases, don't sacrifice well, go to Mariano in relief to the point that he is tired and overworked, allow Posada not to block the runner at a play at the plate, etc. Yet, they win much more than they lose. Fran knows which players he wants to play, and plays them to near exhaustion, even when they are sub-par physically or otherwise playing poorly, apparantly assuming that he would rather have Os, for example, on the next possession (irrespective of how he has played to that point), than he would a substitute, and this may be because he is stubborn, or because he is drilling that player and the unit not only for that game but for the tough times later in the season (irrespective of whether or not he has lost a quick fix for the moment). Tim is like Posada, great player who does many things very well, but both are slow and have flaws that occasionally are exploited, such as their lack of quickness, and occasionally are made to look bad. One could also make the analogy to Matsui. Os plays a bit like Bernie. Both are senior, have their streaks, look elegant sometimes and way out of sync at others. Ibby is becoming Jeter, and that's ok by me. Mark is Brosius or O'Neil( warriors every time out, getting the most out of their abilities. Loved to watch them play).Danley has a little Tino in him (slender, very good defense, and aggressive and efficient on offense). The Yankees and Penn re-load every year with new and exciting players , and both teams are ones that opposing fans love to hate, and the other players respect. Last point, Penn-Princeton is a lot like the Yankee-Boston rivalry, and Penn-St Joe's in some ways reminds me of the Yankee- Met neighborhood rivalry. Obviously, we're not pros and they are, and our teams don't have scholarship players and the Yankees have players worth millions. Still, I love them both and find much joy and only occasional angst following the fortunes and dissecting the talents of each. What do all of you think about Penn basketball being a poor man's N.Y. Yankees? No need to make the analogy between West Philly and the South Bronx, by the way. I'll take the Penn campus and West Philly any day!
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Anonymous
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-20-05 04:05 PM - Post#4671
In response to
I missed the most obvious one of all. The Palestra and Yankee Stadium are both cathedrals where their parishioners have worshipped for years. Both are hoary with antiquity, famous, draw terrific, partisan crowds, the home of multiple championships, and are revered in all sportsdom.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Penn-Yankee analogy
02-20-05 06:58 PM - Post#4672
In response to
Also being a lifelong Yankee fan, I am fascinated with this analogy. I know P38 (a hard-core Met fan) must be cringing as he reads this thread. I wonder if the realtionship between Dunph & Bilsky is anything like that of Torre & Steinbrenner?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-21-05 01:14 AM - Post#4673
In response to seas2k4
One weird note about Zoller's game. Last year, the only game where I thought a team really took it to us the way Yale did last night was when Brown came into the Palestra. Zoller had a career game that night too. Even stranger, when Penn went on a late run against Brown to cut the defecit down to 2, Zoller was on the bench. So maybe PennPal's right about this guy.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-21-05 01:58 AM - Post#4674
In response to SomeGuy
Some of us, though, are not Yankees fans, thanks. Some Penn fans aren't even Red Sox fans either. The better comparison is the attacking brilliance of the English soccer team Arsenal.
| "Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-21-05 05:44 AM - Post#4675
In response to SomeGuy
Quote:
One weird note about Zoller's game. Last year, the only game where I thought a team really took it to us the way Yale did last night was when Brown came into the Palestra. Zoller had a career game that night too. Even stranger, when Penn went on a late run against Brown to cut the defecit down to 2, Zoller was on the bench. So maybe PennPal's right about this guy.
If you're implying that when Zoller plays well, they lose (and vice versa), I tend to disagree (tell me if I read that wrong). Look no further than the beginning of this season. His poor games were coinciding with the lossess. He played well, and Penn cruised.
Blowout against Drexel - 22 and 12
Loss at Nova - 1-8 for 3 pts
Loss at SF - 2-6 & 4-9 from the line(including big 1 & 1's)
Loss at Rider - 17 mins and 2-5
Blowout at Siena - 7-9 and 4-5 from the line for 18
Win vs St. Joes - 6-12 and 9 rebounds (5 offensive)
Blowout vs Yale - 6-11 and 9 rebounds
Blowout vs Brown - 4-7 and 9 rebounds
You get the idea. In the other games up to this point, I'd call his performance average. I really have felt this year that his performance, maybe more than anyone elses, dictates the final score.
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Phil
Freshman
Posts: 75
Loc: Princeton
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-21-05 06:48 AM - Post#4676
In response to DCAJedi
Some of us, though, are not Yankees fans, thanks. Some Penn fans aren't even Red Sox fans either. The better comparison is the attacking brilliance of the English soccer team Manchester United.
I have corrected your typo! 
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Ancient Quaker
Masters Student
Posts: 648
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 12:25 PM - Post#4677
In response to Streamers
I like the 12-2 projection as well, but that stinking 11-3 possibility lingers and festers.
Regarding Flato, I agree he looked great on Saturday. Kind of reminded me of another Yale freshman PG from long ago who looked like he might be a world-beater -- Alex Gamboa.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 01:11 PM - Post#4678
In response to Ancient Quaker
Flato seems more versatile that Gamboa did as a freshman. The big question will be finding that second quick guard next year to either come in for Flato or play next to him, as Jones always seems to have that second guy.
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 02:41 PM - Post#4679
In response to Ancient Quaker
Quote:
I like the 12-2 projection as well, but that stinking 11-3 possibility lingers and festers.
11-3 still works so long as Yale drops one more. They have two road games next weekend at Harvard and Dartmouth that should give them trouble. Both teams feature big 'ol centers (Cusworth & Gardner) that Yale could struggle with.
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Anonymous
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 03:04 PM - Post#4680
In response to Red n Blue
Agreed....Does anyone seriously think Yale will win out? Or even go 3-0 this week? My hat's off to them for a terrific game on Saturday night. They beat Penn in all aspects of the game. But if Yale loses one more game, all Penn has to do is win 3 of the next 4 to clinch before the game at Princeton.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Back from this weekend's games...
02-21-05 03:13 PM - Post#4681
In response to Phil
Quote:
I have corrected your typo!
I was going to make a Princeton-Manchester United comparison, but that doesn't really work because United doesn't have anybody who can suck the life out of the game by holding onto the ball for extended periods of time. 
| "Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 06:36 PM - Post#4682
In response to
Brown seems to have left the premises, so they very well could get a sweep there. However, I think Yale's about as likely to get swept this weekend as it is to get a sweep. Dartmouth is playing well, and Harvard is playing well enough.
Of course, it's possible that a switch has finally gone on for this team that will stay on. However, it's looked that way on a number of occasions over the last three years, and it never stuck.
If I'm Jones, I'm sticking with the rotation that's been working lately, ie, a lot of Caleb Holmes and Flato and not a lot of Hughes. Save him for a highlight reel dunk at garbage time.
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TomPittsburgh
maximus
Posts: 538
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Reg: 11-28-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 07:18 PM - Post#4683
In response to Red n Blue
of course all this chatter is meaningless if Penn runs the table and they should be able to do that. I think we all realize that we didn't see the real Penn team last Saturday nigt at Payne Whitney.
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-21-05 10:23 PM - Post#4684
In response to TomPittsburgh
Quote:
of course all this chatter is meaningless if Penn runs the table and they should be able to do that. I think we all realize that we didn't see the real Penn team last Saturday nigt at Payne Whitney.
I find it hard to confidently predict running the table. There is still a game at Jadwin which is unpredictable by its very nature. We have a road game at Cornell which could be tough. Those are the two games that most concern me. Columbia isn't the doormat it used to be but Cornell scares me a bit more. They looked pretty tough in the Palestra before they wilted. Fortunately we have Harvard & Dartmouth in the Palestra.
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Anonymous
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-22-05 03:39 AM - Post#4685
In response to SomeGuy
My friend S.G. I don't think it was quite "garbage time" when Hughes lost Begley just prior to posterizing Steve Danley. Frankly, it appeared to be quite energizing for Yale.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-22-05 05:20 AM - Post#4686
In response to
I didn't mean to suggest that it was (though he did have a garbage time one was over Jan at the Palestra). Just that the team has taken off as his minutes have diminished, and that his grand contribution to the two Penn games mainly consisted of two dunks, one of no meaning at all, and the other of a bit of meaning in what was already turning into a rout.
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Anonymous
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Re: Yale won the game more than Penn lost it
02-22-05 01:58 PM - Post#4687
In response to SomeGuy
Speaking of Hughes.....
Wouldn't everyone pay big money to see a FT shooting contest between Hughes, Pettinella, PJ Flaherty, and Eric Taylor? They can play the song "Brickhouse" in the background.
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