Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-21-09 10:26 AM - Post#63924
Last season, our top 6 guards had the following 3 pt. percentages:
Foley .207 (6/29)
Agho .357 (30/84)
Nico .422 (27/64)
K.J. .367 (51/139)
Bulger .091 (1/11)
Egee .179 (5/28)
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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Re: 3 pointers
06-21-09 08:46 PM - Post#63930
In response to Dr. V
Where's Brittney Carfora when you need her?
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: 3 pointers
06-22-09 01:06 AM - Post#63934
In response to The Lion King
No idea who that is.
What I found surprising was that Nico's percentage was not only higher than KJ's, but significantly so. I would have guessed the reverse, but perhaps that's due to the effect of recency on memory--I believe KJ's shooting percentage was higher during the latter part of the season than it had been earlier. Also surprised to see how low many of the other percentages were, but then we had all of those games when it seemed we couldn't shoot a ball into the ocean. That aside, seems players who can't at least shoot .300 should not be shooting 3's.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-22-09 02:05 AM - Post#63935
In response to Dr. V
Brittney Carfora was a good 3-point shooter for the Lions; she led the nation in 06-07 with 52%, eighth all-time in NCAA history.
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CU.LIONS
Senior
Posts: 398
Reg: 03-03-07
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06-22-09 08:03 AM - Post#63936
In response to internetter
That is an excellent point Dr.V. Players should play to their strengths and unfortunately shooting isn't one of them. Although I cant understand how a Div 1 guard can not shoot at least 20% from the 3.
KJ was streaky shooter who could get hot at times, but took too many poor attempts when he really wasn't open. Scott, I thought has always been a solid shooter and Agho appears to have the potential to be a good one as well. But the sad part is that they may be the only 2 "real" shooters on the roster.
Shooting may the single biggest reason Columbia does not achieve what should be a very competitive season from them.
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-22-09 01:48 PM - Post#63938
In response to CU.LIONS
Agree that shooting may be our biggest weakness. Coach Jones has the team playing good D, and we don't turn the ball over all the time the way we did under the previous coach. Interestingly, jump shooting is something at which one can improve. Recall that Michael Jorday was not a very good jump shooter until he had been in the pros a while. Bill Bradley, not the most athletic of players, could nail a J with his eyes closed because, as he tells it, he practiced shooting for 3-4 hours every day. Hope at least some of our players are motivated to do the same.
One thing I have a hard time understanding is why no tries to fix some of the players' lousy form. Don't understand why no one did it in h.s., and why no one seems to be doing it in college. A number of our players have bad form. That should be fixed because it affects shooting percentage. When I was in h.s. many years ago, a coach made me reform my lousy form. It only took about a week. He had me stand about 5 ft away from a wall and learn how to release the ball properly held and at the apogee of my jump. When I could do that repeatedly, he let me jump shoot standing layups, then move away two feet etc.
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CU.LIONS
Senior
Posts: 398
Reg: 03-03-07
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06-24-09 04:31 PM - Post#63976
In response to Dr. V
My guess to your question is that perhaps the art of shooting is a forgotten trait amongst many of the HS and college coaches. I also agree that many of the forms used by the current group of players look rather strange.
Also for your question about the extra time put in by the players for shooting is unknown to me, but shooting more often seems a logical solution to a dire problem.
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AndreG
Sophomore
Posts: 174
Reg: 10-28-07
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06-24-09 04:45 PM - Post#63978
In response to CU.LIONS
Considering that Columbia was one of the poorer shooting teams last year and they are losing one of the better shooters - KJ Matsui- It becomes painfully clear that shooting and offense in general will be a major weakness for Columbia. I also agree that Niko and Noru are the only legitimate shooters returning - not including any potential newcomers. But Columbia does have some nice coming in next year with Max, Asenso, Grimes a few others. Hopefully that size can help off set some of our shooting woes.
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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06-24-09 08:59 PM - Post#63989
In response to AndreG
Columbia has not been a good offensive team under Jones. So it should be of no surprise they struggle to shoot well either. The comments in the past that Jones is not a good game coach can also be applied here. The fact that players (with a few exceptions perhaps) have not improved their shooting or form or production throughout the years is an indication that Jones and staff are not strong in those categories.
I don't believe it's a situation where the Lions practice less than their counter parts in the league. Based on the character displayed on the court last season, I would tend to believe the players work at least as hard as anyone else in practice.
Perhaps recruiting players who are strong shooters in HS rather than trying to develop them in college is the answer considering the lack of success so far.
I expect another strong defensive campaign next year with the players Columbia has returning. But it will be hard for me to believe the offense will be anything but marginally better.
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AndreG
Sophomore
Posts: 174
Reg: 10-28-07
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06-24-09 09:08 PM - Post#63990
In response to skiba34
What about Brian Grimes? Does anyone know if he is a good shooter? I don't remember what the reports on him were other then he is supposed to be pretty good inside and out.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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06-25-09 02:29 PM - Post#64005
In response to AndreG
Starting Line-up Possibility #1: 7'0" Max Craig at Center, 6'6" Asenso Ampim and 6'7" Brian Grimes at Forward, 6'3" Noruwa Agho and 6'1" Patrick Foley at Guard. ((Note: Assumes Ampim, Grimes and Foley return healthy).
Starting Line-up Possibility #2: 7'0" Max Craig at Center, 6'11" Zack Crimmins and Ampim or Grimes at Forward, and 6'3" Noruwa Agho and 6'1" Patrick Foley at Guard. (Note: Assumes Ampim, Grimes and Foley return healthy and Coach Jones is willing to think "big." If Coach Jones wants to make some noise in the Ivy League next year, this line-up is the way to go)!
Starting Line-up Possibility #3: 7'0" Max Craig at Center, 6'11" Zack Crimmins and 6'8-1/2" Marc Cisco at the Forwards and 6'3" Noruwa Agho and Niko Scott at Shooting Guard and Steve Egee, Matt Johnson, Kevin Bulger, Chris Crockett and Brian Barbour at Point Guard. (Note: Assumes, that the guys who were injured last year, Grimes, Ampim and Foley, are unable to return to the starting line-up due to injury). Plenty of uncertainty with this line-up, but some potential also, particularly if someone like Johnson or Crockett steps up and delivers big-time).
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-25-09 03:02 PM - Post#64006
In response to Columbia 37P6
My speculation, assuming all recovered and no injuries during season, as the line up we'll see most often: Crimmins and Craig split time at C; Grimes and Asenso at F; with 3 guards: Foley, Agho and Nico, with Bulger getting a lot of time. We're simply much deeper in the back court than the front court.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-25-09 09:14 PM - Post#64010
In response to Dr. V
If someone knows, as in knows how good Craig is, please report.
As in the past, the starting lineup is so tentative. Who plays in the third and fourth quarters, eventually more important, depends on game situations, who's hot, who's not, and foul problems. Then, there are the match-ups with the other teams.
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CU.LIONS
Senior
Posts: 398
Reg: 03-03-07
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06-27-09 12:19 AM - Post#64024
In response to internetter
If all healthy,
Foley at point. All other players on roster at the point guard position are too young or not good enough yet. At the very least is the best scoring point guard on a limited scoring team.
Scott at the shooting guard. Not sure why you would not consider him a starter Columbia 37P6. Scott is the most consistent shooter and scorer who has started all 3 years. Also one of the best defenders.
3rd guard - (please note, I believe as Dr.V noted, Columbia will use a 3 guard lineup). Agho, despite freshman like inconsistencies at times, clearly demonstrated abilities as a shooter, scorer and defender as well a good rebounder.
All 3 guards above should be considered definite starters.
The center position. Not as clear cut as the guards, but from the way I hear it (please note internetter) Graig, is a clear cut above Crimmins. His strength, hands and effectiveness near the basket makes him the favorite over Crimmins.
The big forward position. This to me would be the biggest question mark. Both Ampim and Grimes are coming off serious injuries with Grimes the greater. Ampim, on one hand has trouble staying out of foul trouble, while coach Jones may not want to throw Grimes right in the mix coming off a torn ACL(?) My best guess is that this may be a rotating starting position.
Bulger will see many minutes off bench, especially when one considers he can play a few positions and may be one of the best defenders in the Ivies.
Surprise player will be John Daniels. As I mentioned a few months back, he is supposed to be an outstanding prospect who displayed his abilities during a recent basketball camp at Columbia. Outside of Brian Grimes (who no one seems to have seen) Daniels may be the best inside outside player Columbia has. (someone compared him favorably to John Baumann in that regards) May take some time to adjust to the college game however.
Anything or anyone after that is anyone's guess.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-27-09 12:37 AM - Post#64025
In response to CU.LIONS
With respect, CU.Lions, "...from the way I hear it..." needs some detail. Is your information from someone who's knowledgeable, has seen him play recently?
Another possibility at F is Cisco. But, like all frosh, he has to be evaluated at the college level before anything definitive can be said.
Let's hope at least some of the returnees, at least, are putting in the summer Miller did last year.
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CU.LIONS
Senior
Posts: 398
Reg: 03-03-07
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06-27-09 12:48 AM - Post#64026
In response to internetter
With respect, CU.Lions, "...from the way I hear it..." needs some detail. Is your information from someone who's knowledgeable, has seen him play recently?
To answer your question, someone is somewhat close
with a history of accurate information and very good knowledge. I trust his information and would not post typical hearsay.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-27-09 12:51 AM - Post#64027
In response to CU.LIONS
Thanks. Just what I hoped to read!!!
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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06-27-09 07:56 AM - Post#64028
In response to internetter
Starting lineups should be as mentioned already by CU.LIONS and Dr.V, Scott, Agho and Foley. However Bulger starting at point guard would not surprise me. It would help keep Foley injury free with a slightly smaller role and provide a scorer off the bench. It would also allow the 3 toughest defenders in the Ivies in Bulger Scott and Agho to dictate what may be the best defensive unit also in the Ivies.
CU.LIONs - you talk about Graig as being a better offensive player then Crimmins, but is he a better defender? Which of the 2 will be more foul prone. At this point I would say Crimmins should have a good chance to start at some point.
Same may be said for Grimes and Ampim I guess.
I will say this, there are many more choices this year it seems then in previous years.
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-27-09 10:16 AM - Post#64030
In response to skiba34
I love the idea of being able to have a 7-footer in there at all times, so it doesn't matter who starts. They can split the 40 minutes.
I'm intrigued by the comments about Daniels. He played h.s. ball in Iowa, which is not exactly a hotbed of h.s. basketball, but then spent a year at New Hampton playing with and against a ton of D-1 recruits. His team had 7 players going on to play in college either this fall or committed for next fall, so he practiced daily against very good competition. It'll be interesting to see how far along he is. Purportedly he has good range to 17 ft.
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AndreG
Sophomore
Posts: 174
Reg: 10-28-07
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3 pointers
06-28-09 05:55 PM - Post#64040
In response to Dr. V
Interesting reading all the hypothetical possibilities at this point. But my question or comment would be why isn't anyone considering an incoming frosh at this point? The coaching staff in years past have at times shown that they would be willing to start a frosh if he were the best player - Agho, Scott and Loscalzo come to mind. Hasn't Columbia brought in a ton of point guards? Perhaps one of them will be a better defender and better distributer of the ball then the current group. Perhaps even John Daniels, since the comments on him were quite positive. How long can Columbia rely on players who shoot less then 20 and 30% from 3s and 2s respectively. Perhaps Cisco will turn out better then both for-mentioned 7fters. I will agree with an above comment that Columbia does have more choices this year then in some previous years. Hopefully they can find the right mix and put it all together. Just my opinion.
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