internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-23-09 02:23 PM - Post#71333
It appears it will be on the Lion video service.
http://www.gocolumbialions.com/liveEvents/liveEven...
Q's site says it's to start at 7.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-23-09 03:06 PM - Post#71336
In response to internetter
The Q feed will start at 6:30, the game at 7:00.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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quinnipiac
12-23-09 08:31 PM - Post#71353
In response to internetter
Craig was playing:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=2 935...
Barbour entered near the end of the half.
Half: Lions 31-27.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-23-09 09:56 PM - Post#71355
In response to internetter
lost 63-51s; erious second half collapse.
Q's D RBs, Lions' poor foul, FG shooting; 11 TOs in second; Col tried but 6 treys, making 3, Agho missed his only try, led scorers with 14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=2 935...
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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12-23-09 10:34 PM - Post#71356
In response to internetter
Well, you don't win many games shooting 36 percent. On the other hand, you don't win many shooting 38 percent either, and that's what Quinnipiac did. And how on earth did Bulger and Foley get 4 fouls apiece while playing 12 and 17 minutes? But the FT stats may be the ugliest of all from the Lions' perspective: Columbia 14 for 28, Quinnipiac 13 for 16.
It looks like the Q-Tips decided to go all-out against the three-pointer and challenge Columbia to beat them inside. Obviously the Lions couldn't, though if Craig improves and is able to put in more than a cameo appearance in the future, this may change. Actually Cisco's line looks decent (8 pt, 8 reb in 18 minutes), and Agho had his usual solid game, leading in points (14) and assists (3; no one else had more than 1). Grimes continues his enigmatic course with 6 points on 2-for-10 shooting, also 5 TO's.
Columbia still has three players who, at their best, can take control of a game in very different ways: Agho, Foley, and Grimes. If Craig can be dominant underneath, they will have a very strong team that I can even imagine beating Cornell on a good night. That's the best-case scenario. The worst-case scenario is what happened tonight, and after several decades of watching Columbia basketball, I know which we will probably see more of when the Ivy season starts.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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12-23-09 10:58 PM - Post#71359
In response to The Lion King
Embarrassing. Foley picked up two fouls in the first two minutes of the game and Coach J kept him on the bench for the rest of the first half. Then Foley picked up another quick foul at the start of the second half and Coach J pulled him again over Foley's plea. When Foley finally got back on the floor, he was so frightened of getting another foul that he was useless. Meanwhile, Grimes and Ampim were having a miserable time trying to play the pivot which is not their natural position. Cisco started the game and looked very good, but only played about 17 minutes and apparently was hit with a technical foul for something or another in the early part of the second half. Cisco is the only player on the team who is a natural center and a consistent scorer so it is inexplicable to me why the Lions are not using him more. Quinnipiac (probably misspelled) had some fast guards who gave Foley and Agho fits, but not having another scorer besides Agho spelled defeat for the Lions. Oh yeah, they stunk from the foul line.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-23-09 11:17 PM - Post#71360
In response to The Lion King
Columbia still has three players who, at their best, can take control of a game in very different ways: Agho, Foley, and Grimes. If Craig can be dominant underneath, they will have a very strong team that I can even imagine beating Cornell on a good night.
Craig never was dominant in two seasons at Loyola Marymount and has now played three non-dominant minutes for the Lions. So that's a very big IF. And as I don't believe Foley or Grimes has ever taken control of a game, your belief in them is . . . refreshing and you have an excellent imagination.
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AndreG
Sophomore
Posts: 174
Reg: 10-28-07
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12-23-09 11:54 PM - Post#71361
In response to Howard Gensler
My theme has always been the passing game or lack thereof. The team had only 7 assists while shooting 36%. I have always thought the problem starts with the point guard. I have always felt and still feel that is Columbia's main problem. Foley may have played a foul prone 17 minutes, but quite honestly is not a pass 1st player. He basically just looks to get in the lane and get his shots up. At times he makes some nifty shots, but will very rarely find the open man. Same with Egee. Columbia's points guards in 40 minutes of combined time managed not a single assist! I will challenge anyone to find a single college game on the D1 level where after an entire game, point guards had not a single assist. If that game does exist - against astronomical odds - I would venture to guess that team lost as well. But it's the entire team as well. The big men for Columbia can not or will not find the open players. They also have very poor hands. Has anyone watched any of the Cornell games on TV? It's like night and day difference. I sorry to vent my frustrations so, it's not my style normally. Perhaps I found myself getting my hopes up again only to realize that it will lead to another letdown.I truly hope I am wrong on this one.
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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quinnipiac
12-24-09 12:39 AM - Post#71362
In response to AndreG
I see now why Columbia has so many "cupcakes" lined up.
Andre, you are not the only one feeling frustrated. Columbia has been a very frustrating team to watch throughout the years. At times they can show signs of real promise, then we have tonight's game. Unfortunately tonights game is far too common.
Your issues with the PGs may or may not be a big problem, I am more likely to conclude that the PG problem is more of a "symtom" than the disease.
The disease which has afflicted us in the 2nd half of games, not only tonight (14 points UGH!)or this season, but throughout the years under Coach Jones. More often than not opposing teams figure us out by halftime, adjust, then make their run. This game was no different. Simple predictable plays, strange substituions and usually a strain just to get good looks at the basket.
Jones may be a decent recruiter and a pretty good motivater,(at least the last 2 years) but I have yet to see any significant signs of being a good "game coach".
The offense is usually the best indicator of game coaching. Double that indication in the 2nd half of games. Before someone comes to point out some of the exceptions, let me remind those that they are far to few in between.
Problem is that Columbia has been so poor before Jones' arrival that the current win/loss standards are considered acceptable if not welcome.
After the latest collapse, it seems pretty clear that Columbia will have some good to very good moments through the Ivies, but they will be sandwiched around all too many "letdowns". Most in the 2nd half.
Bank on it!
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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12-24-09 01:10 AM - Post#71365
In response to skiba34
Not so sure I agree with that. Columbia's biggest problem tonight was free-throw shooting, and that's not a matter of game coaching. Also, having Foley out for so long with foul trouble, and then so tentative when he came back, was a big blow, and that's not something you can blame on the coach.
Moreover, defying your prohibition, I will point out that against DePaul, Lehigh, and Bucknell, all credible opponents, Columbia did better in the second half than in the first. So I really don't see any pattern here. Columbia has problems with its opponents going on runs, but it's not specifically a second-half problem.
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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quinnipiac
12-24-09 01:28 AM - Post#71366
In response to The Lion King
Moreover, defying your prohibition, I will point out that against DePaul, Lehigh, and Bucknell, all credible opponents, Columbia did better in the second half than in the first. So I really don't see any pattern here.
Columbia has played in 10 games, doing better vs 3 teams in the 2nd half, means doing worse vs the other 7. I don't call that a good average.
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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12-24-09 01:53 AM - Post#71367
In response to skiba34
That would be true if the three games I cited were the ONLY three where they did better in the second. But they weren't; I just picked out three games that I happened to remember. In fact, Columbia has done better in the second half (measured by scoring margin) in five of its games: DePaul, Bucknell, Sacred Heart, Lehigh, and Bryant.
That said, you and AndreG do have half a point, because in the five games I just listed, the improvement from the first half to the second was always in the 6 to 9 point range. Contrast that with Longwood, where they went from +19 to -8, and tonight, where they went from +4 to -16.
Of the other three, Syracuse was -9 to -16, but that game was so one-sided from the start that who cares; Wagner was the most dramatic at +25 to -14, but that was a deceptive late garbage-time surge when the game had long since been decided; and Stony Brook was +3 to -6, though we remember it as being worse because Columbia had a 12-point lead in the second half and it all seemed to dissolve into nothingness in about two minutes.
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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12-24-09 02:05 AM - Post#71368
In response to The Lion King
Well based on your detailed breakdown Lion King, I think it's fair to say it may be a bigger problem than some may realize.
More importantly Columbia can not afford to have those types of results once the league starts if competing for a high finish is the desired goal.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-24-09 03:07 AM - Post#71372
In response to skiba34
The BR's Foote's passes vs. St, John's amounted to a clinic. Ditto Dale's on drives.
Can that be taught? Encouraged? Or just envied?
While I was hoping for a better game, I'm not (totally) discouraged by the post-exams, road performance. Three of the next four pre-league games are at home vs. beatable teams.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: quinnipiac
12-24-09 09:55 AM - Post#71375
In response to skiba34
I see now why Columbia has so many "cupcakes" lined up.
Depends how you define a cupcake. At least on the Pomeroy ratings, QPac was 29 spots ahead of Columbia. Pomeroy predicted the game as a 70-64 loss for the Lions.
As for Lion King's post regarding credible opponents DePaul, Lehigh and Bucknell, Depaul is behind Columbia and has losses to American AND Florida Gulf Coast (two very bad teams this season), Bucknell is 35 spots behind Columbia and Lehigh is 57 spots behind Columbia. They should have won those games. As of now Columbia hasn't beaten one team ranked higher than them and lost to two teams ranked lower. Their next opportunity to beat someone higher? Cornell.
Edited by Howard Gensler on 12-24-09 09:56 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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Re: quinnipiac
12-24-09 11:09 AM - Post#71384
In response to Howard Gensler
Thanks for contributing your valuable insights, Howie! I hope that you have a wonderful Christmas, and that next year will be a great one for you and your Quakers (except on February 13 and 26).
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-24-09 11:24 AM - Post#71385
In response to The Lion King
You're very welcome LK, same to you. Not trying to rain on your parade, especially since mine has already been rained out, but a lot of optimism has never been hurt by a little reality.
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skiba34
Masters Student
Posts: 952
Reg: 03-11-06
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Re: quinnipiac
12-24-09 03:02 PM - Post#71398
In response to Howard Gensler
I see now why Columbia has so many "cupcakes" lined up.
Depends how you define a cupcake. At least on the Pomeroy ratings, QPac was 29 spots ahead of Columbia. Pomeroy predicted the game as a 70-64 loss for the Lions.
As for Lion King's post regarding credible opponents DePaul, Lehigh and Bucknell, Depaul is behind Columbia and has losses to American AND Florida Gulf Coast (two very bad teams this season), Bucknell is 35 spots behind Columbia and Lehigh is 57 spots behind Columbia. They should have won those games. As of now Columbia hasn't beaten one team ranked higher than them and lost to two teams ranked lower. Their next opportunity to beat someone higher? Cornell.
Howard, I never called the Q a cupcake. But after reading your post and the evidence you presented it appears that Columbia may be the "cupcakes" to some of these teams.
Based on Howard's information, there may be a bigger problem with Columbia then originally thought.
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The Lion King
Junior
Posts: 257
Reg: 11-10-06
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quinnipiac
12-24-09 04:20 PM - Post#71401
In response to skiba34
(I'm spending my Christmas Eve beating a dead horse. How are you spending your Christmas Eve?)
FWIW, Sagarin ratings are DePaul 172, Columbia 210, Lehigh 241, Bucknell 253.
The entire Ivy League is Cornell 32, Harvard 51, Princeton 152, Columbia 210, Brown 256, Yale 265, Penn 334, Dartmouth 341.
So the three teams I mentioned are about on a level with Columbia's mid-Ivy opponents; in fact, the worst of the three is better than half the league. That's all I meant by "credible."
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AndreG
Sophomore
Posts: 174
Reg: 10-28-07
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12-25-09 07:50 PM - Post#71428
In response to internetter
The BR's Foote's passes vs. St, John's amounted to a clinic. Ditto Dale's on drives.
Can that be taught? Encouraged? Or just envied?
Teaching, encouraging, emphasizing and film studying can help. Perhaps not to the level of Cornell. Recruiting a point guard that can make passes, create for teammates and see the court better than what Columbia has had can only help. How can Columbia ever expect to compete for a title if the team gets 7 or 8 assists in what seems like half their games? Again I ask, has there ever been a game where the points guards gained not a single assist? I don't think there has been an Ivy league contender that didn't have a point guard make 1st, 2nd or at least 3rd team all Ivy in over 2 decades. It is not a conincidence.
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