Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-19 11:20 AM - Post#277667
Simple Question: What the hell happened to this team?
Really like this team’s guts and effort as well as Coach Donahue’s strategy in general, but this Ivy meltdown is confounding to say the least.
I don’t want to hear excuses like “Ivy League is so tough, there are no easy outs†BS that we’ve been hearing in press conferences either. While the Ivy is absolutely tough this year, Columbia had 6 wins overall, was a ~250ish team, we were playing at home, and it was a continuation of struggling that we’ve seen all Ivy season even if we did manage to win in OT. At the beginning of the season, we were blowing out teams at that level. Now we are struggling with them week in and week out.
What’s clear is that something broke... just look at stats in league versus out. They’ve cratered. Defense even worse than offense. We are 7th in defensive efficiency and 5th in offensive efficiency.
I just don’t get it and the concerning part is that Coach Donahue doesn’t seem to either because he is reaching. Oddly playing even less players, players going from starting to nowhere or nowhere to playing 30 mins, but none of it is working.
I’m still a big fan of Coach Donahue and what he has done and is doing for the program (fully behind him) but man, everyone, top to bottom is going to have to do some serious soul searching and self evaluation after this season (whatever the outcome). Last year was brilliant, but this is 2 out of 3 Ivy League Seasons where we played clearly below our performance in non-conference. Something to be aware of and hopefully find a way to fix moving forward.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8262
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-19 12:58 PM - Post#277676
In response to Mike Porter
I'll let the basketball savants on the board opine on the in-game tactical issues and how the IL coaches seem to be one step ahead of SD this year. What I see is that this team cannot finish games. Starting with Monmouth, every loss but 2 has been close at the end with at least one blown lead late.
I do not remember having these issues with SD last year, and he is the same coach with the same philosophy.
One thing I learned from watching guys like Ibby and Rosen is the importance of having a PG who could own the game in the final minutes with a lead. Darnell was that guy last year. I thought Antonio would be that guy this year. For whatever reason, Penn is not clearing out and letting him create like he has in the past late in games. If anything, we are seeing Dev with the ball in those situations of late. Dev has the skills, but, as we saw last night, he is not reliable in that role yet.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-23-19 01:55 PM - Post#277680
In response to Mike Porter
The point about the Coach reaching is an interesting one. Not sure whether it is really different from the last two years, where Donahue made these types of playing time changes as well. But the changes in conjunction with the public comments about Wang do make it look more like grasping to find answers. I’m always more “stay the course†than most of the board, I know, but a lot of this may have been funny bounces (certainly was against Harvard and Princeton in particular). When the coach starts grasping, that makes those bounces seem like more than they are, and that can create a snowball effect. And because the coach has done a very good job of staying the course and maintaining buy in, if he shows cracks in that confidence in approach, that also can have a snowball effect because it seems different from prior demeanor/approach. That is of course total BS speculation and could have no resemblance to reality. But it does kind of fit the facts.
Regardless of the why, as one of the Princeton guys pointed out, this is similar to what Princeton went through last year. It can snowball on you. There are frankly similarities for this year’s Brown team too. A lot of close losses can have a cumulative impact.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 12:00 AM - Post#277775
In response to SomeGuy
One thing to note is Penn is getting no contribution from the Sophmore class. Part is the injury to Jalani, but more is the failure of Eddie and Simmons to develop.
A note or next year. At the game tonight when Penn did close out an opponent, Hamilton was in a boot, but Williams and Betley were wearing normal clothing and walking normally. There are seven months until the opening of practice. That should be enough time to get them healthy.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-24-19 07:43 AM - Post#277787
In response to UPIA1968
This is a very important point to note and one I was going to bring up after the season. It is quite troubling that they get nothing from that class. Either the evaluations were wrong or the development isn’t there. Either way it is very tough to overcome an ofer class. Obviously it’s bad luck with Jelani but after the game Eddie had Vs Monmouth last year, I thought we’d have seen something. Wish I could say I was surprised on Jarrod but aside from nice form on his shot, something is just missing. Looking at how little depth we have up front they were obviously depending on him and we might really feel it next year from a depth perspective without Max.
On a separate note, they could have really used Tyler at different points this season.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8262
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 08:57 AM - Post#277791
In response to Quakers03
Obviously it’s bad luck with Jelani but after the game Eddie had Vs Monmouth last year, I thought we’d have seen something. Wish I could say I was surprised on Jarrod but aside from nice form on his shot, something is just missing. Looking at how little depth we have up front they were obviously depending on him and we might really feel it next year from a depth perspective without Max.
On a separate note, they could have really used Tyler at different points this season.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Tyler has what it takes defensively to match up with some of the best players in the IL and I would have loved see him on say, Stefanini, when he was killing us on Friday.
Eddie and Jarrod have skills. The latter just can’t seem to get into the offense (not to mention being foul-prone) and the former is just a mystery. I have them both on transfer watch.
Tyler, as a senior with eligibility left could also end up as a grad transfer.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23405
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 09:58 AM - Post#277797
In response to Streamers
Next year is our top of the cycle year. Not to put too much pressure on, but we really need to break through then and there. The alternative is not pretty.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32844
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 10:33 AM - Post#277800
In response to 10Q
Let's worry about next year after next weekend, if necessary. If we win and Brown wins next Friday, our destiny is back in our hands.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23405
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 10:39 AM - Post#277801
In response to palestra38
Brown needs to lose.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32844
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 10:54 AM - Post#277802
In response to 10Q
You are clueless. If we win out, we have the tiebreaker on Brown. Brown must beat Cornell. Then if we win out, we're in.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8262
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 11:22 AM - Post#277804
In response to 10Q
Next year is our top of the cycle year. Not to put too much pressure on, but we really need to break through then and there. The alternative is not pretty.
At the risk of being reprimanded by P38 (even if he may be right - note he has Harvard tickets) I have not forgotten that we are talking about a top-cycle year - and incidentally the first with all SD recruits unless Tyler returns. Worst case, we write off the rising juniors, but I do think there is not only quality in the incoming class but pretty good depth chart fit.
I'm somewhere in between holding out hope for a win-out and the tantalizing notion that this team can beat Yale twice if it plays like it did OOC, and looking ahead to next year. At least I could take my fork home from the game last night.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 11:38 AM - Post#277809
In response to palestra38
You are clueless. If we win out, we have the tiebreaker on Brown. Brown must beat Cornell. Then if we win out, we're in.
Not exactly. Cornell could lose to Brown but still control the tiebreaker over us, if we both finish 8-6, thanks to their win at Harvard. But should Brown also finish 8-6, creating a 3-way tie (highly unlikely), then we would own the head-to-head (-to head) tiebreaker.
A fourth-place tie at 7-7 (more likely) gets more complicated due to the many scenarios of how we get there.
Edited by 13otto on 02-24-19 11:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23405
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-19 11:39 AM - Post#277810
In response to Streamers
The forks are at the ready, but yeah, Q is keeping the faith. Let's go Quakers. Shock us all and rediscover the magic.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32844
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 11:42 AM - Post#277811
In response to 13otto
I guess I didn't have all the clues...but still, we're much better off if Brown beats Cornell. But Cornell is not going to beat both Yale and Harvard, anyway.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Reg: 07-28-07
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 01:58 PM - Post#277820
In response to 13otto
But if Penn wins out, it would also have a win over Harvard and one over Yale. Wouldn't that give Penn the advantage in a tie breaker with Brown?
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Ted
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 12-23-12
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 06:20 PM - Post#277861
In response to SteveChop
Am I missing something here? If Penn wins out, that means they will have defeated Brown twice, and thus would be the winner in a 2 way tie breaker with the Bears. The results vs Yale and Harvard would be irrelevant.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Reg: 07-28-07
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 09:19 PM - Post#277891
In response to Ted
But Penn has split with Cornell and I believe that the 2nd tie breaker is which of the two tied teams has beaten the highest finisher in the league. Both Penn and Cornell would have beaten Harvard but Penn would also have beaten Yale giving them the fourth spot.
It's the corollary to why Penn was seeded second in last year's ILT. If I recall correctly, Harvard had beaten Yale but Penn did not.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 09:29 PM - Post#277893
In response to SteveChop
Both Penn and Cornell would have beaten Harvard but Penn would also have beaten Yale giving them the fourth spot.
Perhaps, but it's also possible (albeit not likely) that both Penn and Cornell end up beating Yale and end up tied.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 09:43 PM - Post#277896
In response to SteveChop
But Penn has split with Cornell and I believe that the 2nd tie breaker is which of the two tied teams has beaten the highest finisher in the league. Both Penn and Cornell would have beaten Harvard but Penn would also have beaten Yale giving them the fourth spot.
That first part is true. But if Cornell loses to Brown and Penn wins out, the only way they end up tied at 8-6 is if Cornell beats Yale, Harvard and Dartmouth, meaning that Cornell also would have beaten Yale while beating Harvard twice. Tiebreaker still goes to Cornell for beating Harvard twice.
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Ted
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 12-23-12
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Re: Simple Question, Complex Answer
02-24-19 11:23 PM - Post#277900
In response to SteveChop
Steve, I was only referring to a 2 way tie scenario between Penn and Brown if Penn wins out, to which I thought you were referring. Penn would have beaten Brown twice in that instance.
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