Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-13-11 07:55 AM - Post#100552
In response to puband09
For all the finger-pointing (foul shooting, McNally's miss, etc.), the real reason that Harvard lost out has been building all year. Look at the PT -- 5 players with > 30 minutes on the floor, two stars with 4 fouls, and a bunch of potential sitting on the bench. Tommy Amaker has succeeded in loading up Harvard with very talented athletes and then DOESN'T USE THEM!!!!! I feel some (not a lot) sympathy for those guys in the ugly dark jerseys who really had us down for most of the second half, but no sympathy for Amaker. He's a crappy coach when it comes to getting the best from ALL his players. Contrast Sydney who had 8 players with double digit minutes last night and you can understand why every one of those Princeton players looked so happy at the end of the game. Thank you, Coach Johnson. You are a CLASS ACT.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-13-11 10:43 AM - Post#100565
In response to Tiger69
There was only on play that really disappointed me: with 2 or 3 minutes left, McNalley drove the right baseline and missed a layup. Wright got the tip-in. If you watch the replay, you will see that Barrett was in position in front of the rim, but did not block out. He stood straight up with knees locked, and Wright gently nudged him all the way under the basket and almost to the baseline, the absolute worst spot on the floor after a missed shot. Barrett overall had an excellent game other than this play.
It was a pleasure to watch Connelly play so well. He looked VERY comfortable around the hoop on offense and defense. If we are to beat Harvard next year, Connelly on Wright is our best chance. Bray looked good, and Darrow managed to drape himself all over Wright when he was on the floor.
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Albert08
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 08-21-10
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03-13-11 01:35 PM - Post#100592
In response to Chip Bayers
It was turnabout. Late in the second half, Davis let McNally go baseline for a layup. Terrible D but DD, but he got his revenge.
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Colorado Tiger
Sophomore
Posts: 182
Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
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03-13-11 02:33 PM - Post#100598
In response to Albert08
Pretty sure DD was expecting help defense on the low block which never came on that particular play (I believe both Maddox and Barret were sliding up the paint with their players). While I was taught to never allow a player to beat you on the baseline, it seems that SJ's defensive principles allow this to some degree as you will often see a player go baseline only to be stopped, and at times, trapped, on the baseline by help defense in front of him on the block and his original defender on his courtside hip. Of course, I could be completely wrong about this.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-13-11 05:24 PM - Post#100623
In response to Colorado Tiger
I thought Princeton's D on the final Harvard possession was nearly as bad as what McNally did on the Davis shot. Curry got into the lane, nearly lost the ball on his own, then got a shot up that was barely contested by the three PU players surrounding him - one of the bigs took a half-hearted swipe from behind; the two defenders to his front/ left side didn't even get their arms up.
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Colorado Tiger
Sophomore
Posts: 182
Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
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Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-13-11 06:00 PM - Post#100628
In response to Chip Bayers
Chip,
No question there was a defensive breakdown on Harvard's last possession. Unfortunately for the Crimson, they scored too soon. Maybe it was our plan to give up a qcuik two so that the game would end one way or the other with the ball in our hands. :-)
Edited by Colorado Tiger on 03-13-11 06:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-13-11 06:16 PM - Post#100634
In response to Colorado Tiger
While I was taught to never allow a player to beat you on the baseline.
About a week ago, Jon Solomon posted a video clip of Craig Robinson discussing the 1-3-1 zone (I realize we were playing man during the play in question). Robinson said to attack the shooting side of the wing player, and give up baseline if it is the "off" hand. Perhaps by extrapolation this is what happened. I do not know if McNally is a lefty, nor do I recall the play so I don't know which way he went.
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Colorado Tiger
Sophomore
Posts: 182
Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
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03-13-11 06:21 PM - Post#100637
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Thanks for the anecdote. Makes sense.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4914
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-14-11 01:46 AM - Post#100846
In response to Colorado Tiger
I think Dean Smith was the first guy to make a point of trapping on the baseline routinely, even in man-to-man, instead of cutting off baseline penetration. A lot of NBA teams do it, too.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3675
Reg: 02-06-10
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Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-14-11 02:30 AM - Post#100851
In response to SRP
So many great things about this sideline vid that's been posted on Solomon's blog and the official website:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpTQzkcAZb8
My favorite you-can't-see-this-on-tv moments:
- SJ calmly, silently drawing up a play while Brian Earl emphatically implores him about some detail.
- Curry yelling "Hey! Heeey!" in front of Mavraides to provide an auditory distraction on the in-bounds.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-14-11 07:23 AM - Post#100858
In response to gokinsmen
- SJ calmly, silently drawing up a play while Brian Earl emphatically implores him about some detail.
- Curry yelling "Hey! Heeey!" in front of Mavraides to provide an auditory distraction on the in-bounds.
Thanks for pointing out the Brian Earl activity. I would love to know what point he was making.
The Curry yelling surprised me. Is that common at D1 level? Happens all the time during street ball.
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-14-11 11:00 AM - Post#100896
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Rewatched the end of the game on ESPN3.
Check out the shots of the coaches when Davis is shooting free throws with 2:22 to go.
Amaker is shown sitting on the bench, not looking at the players on the court. At the time, I thought his expression and body language were strange for the situation, as if he is waiting for his fate to be revealed.
Johnson puts in Connolly for Barrett and is shown coaching up T.J. Bray, who is set to go in for Davis in a defense/offense switch. It appears that he is emphasizing, "don't foul." Princeton forced a turnover after 30 seconds in the next possession then called timeout to put Davis and Barrett back in. Although Princeton did not score on the next possession and the two teams traded the lead after that, I think that turnover possession was an important stop. It was the only stop for Princeton in the last 5 minutes of the game. Fortunately, Harvard missed 3 of their 6 free throws during that stretch.
Also, the final shot is a very interesting call by Johnson. Maddox and Hummer are on the side of the ball so Harvard has to watch for one to set a screen for the other for a quick pass or lob on the block or in the paint. That held the Harvard bigs on that side of the court and made it easy for Davis to come off a little screen to get open on the crosscourt baseline where he was isolated one on one. The more traditional in-bound play to a jump shooter would be to set a screen for the shooter to flash to the corner on the side of the ball for a shorter in-bound pass and a catch and shoot jumper.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3675
Reg: 02-06-10
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Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-14-11 02:07 PM - Post#100963
In response to Brian Martin
@princeton72 The Yahoo/Rivals blog write-up says:
Johnson opted not to call a timeout, but did do so after Davis's initial attempt at the game-winner was swatted out of bounds with 2.8 seconds left.
The play they drew up was a meshing of ideas from both Johnson and assistant Brian Earl, ultimately getting Davis the ball in the left corner after popping out from the block, hopefully allowing him to go to work one-on-one.
Of course the play looks a lot better since the shot went in, but SJ and BE have earned 100% confidence from me with regard to their tactical skills. All those close-and-late wins, maximizing the talent/athleticism they have...second to none. BTW, it's things like this that convince me Earl is the "lead" assistant to SJ no matter what Newsom's title is.
Amaker is shown sitting on the bench, not looking at the players on the court. At the time, I thought his expression and body language were strange for the situation, as if he is waiting for his fate to be revealed.
Caught my eye as well -- e.g. "How did it get to this?" Not in an angry way either, but rather strangely defeatist considering the up-for-grabs situation.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3999
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-14-11 03:29 PM - Post#100987
In response to gokinsmen
I don't know why Amaker didn't zone on the inbound play with 2.8 left.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3675
Reg: 02-06-10
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Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-14-11 04:17 PM - Post#101008
In response to Old Bear
Harvard has the athleticism advantage -- you gotta go straight-up man-to-man, there. And it's not like Davis got an easy look even with McNally falling for the fake.
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-14-11 06:14 PM - Post#101039
In response to gokinsmen
Actually, it is practically an old school commandment to play zone when a team is inbounding under its basket because it is just too easy to set a screen or two and get open enough to get a pass for a layup.
That is why I was expecting something like Maddox setting a screen at the elbow for Hummer to cut to the left side of the basket and then Maddox rolling to right block.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3675
Reg: 02-06-10
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Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-14-11 08:15 PM - Post#101057
In response to Brian Martin
Oh, didn't know that. I still think it was the right call in this specific case, though. Not only because of Harvard's speed advantage, but I haven't seen Princeton try (or succeed) at many in-bounds plays this season and this was not the time to experiment. At JMU, Princeton didn't even get a shot off while trying to run a final-seconds play. Better just to get a shot off at all...give yourself a chance.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3675
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!)
03-16-11 08:09 PM - Post#101384
In response to gokinsmen
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=69...
...and it just seemed in that play we looked at option A, it wasn't there, and Doug was option B, and we're fine with that. So it worked out nicely, and maybe there's a little bit more of that to come, we'll see.
Looking at the replay, Option A was probably a Hummer cutting to the hoop off a Maddox screen (or off a Davis feed once it was inbounded). But Casey wisely switched and stayed home in the paint to prevent a Hummer layup. Hence, it ended up being Davis vs. McNally for the final shot.
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