Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4004
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-24-15 06:00 PM - Post#183531
In response to Streamers
While I don't wish to intrude on this overall issue, I do have some strong feeling about Keenan Jeppersen. While he may or may not have had some influence on Penn's success, or lack there of, had transferred, I believe he would have materially helped Brown had he stayed and played for the Bears. Brown was 6-8 in the league in '07 and 11-3 in '08 (19-10 overall and played in the CBI). While I won't argue that we might have won the league, I believe we certainly have been better with him in the line up, and Robinson might have gotten a better job than OSU. And who knows, we might not have been stuck with Agel. BTW, I put Keenan's loss on Miller and on Bilsky, as well.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-24-15 06:01 PM - Post#183532
In response to AsiaSunset
My questions are what ultimately moved the needle at Columbia? Was it pressure from alumni? If so, what kind of pressure? Anything we can replicate?
And
Also - I think many know the circumstances surrounding Jerome's extension. I'm not going to discuss it on this board. But it was done for a reason and at the time didn't seem like the faux pas it does now.
Huh? How at the time did it not seem like a potential faux pas in the making? Because they finished in 2nd place after a .500 OOC? You're telling me that you were convinced that the AD needed to do everything in his power to keep him our head coach instead of potentially losing him? Was he afraid of upheaval? Any way you slice it he had the perfect out to a ridiculous situation he created, and he doubled down instead.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-24-15 06:08 PM - Post#183533
In response to Old Bear
Sorry but Asia is right. The blame for Jeppesen's loss cannot be blamed on Bilsky or Miller. I would love to blame them but that is on your president (and ours caving) regardless of what the student wanted. Spineless but further up the food chain.
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11Quakers
Sophomore
Posts: 123
Age: 63
Reg: 02-25-12
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Re: Musings
02-24-15 06:30 PM - Post#183535
In response to SteveDanley
My main question coming out of this is:
How many beers would I have to buy Asia to get him to divulge the name of the coach we had a handshake deal with?
I'm going to estimate it is 3X the number of beers it cost me to get him to refer to the Ibby/Zoller class as the "Danley class."
Steve your answer is Fran Mcaffery.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Musings
02-24-15 06:39 PM - Post#183536
In response to SteveDanley
My main question coming out of this is:
How many beers would I have to buy Asia to get him to divulge the name of the coach we had a handshake deal with?
I'm going to estimate it is 3X the number of beers it cost me to get him to refer to the Ibby/Zoller class as the "Danley class."
This post made the last year of beating my head on the wall following Penn Basketball worth it. 
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4004
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-24-15 07:00 PM - Post#183538
In response to 91Quake
Nah, poaching a coach from within the league is bad enough, but poaching a coach and the school's best player is way over the top. Columbia didn't go after Bags until after he retired. I don't recall any other coach going directly to another in-league team, in the Ivy League, at least.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Musings
02-24-15 07:07 PM - Post#183539
In response to Penndemonium
At halftime of the last Harvard-Princeton game, the was a ceremony honoring Thomas Stemberg (Staples founder) "to celebrate Thomas G. Stemberg ’71, M.B.A. ’73, a longtime supporter of Harvard basketball who recently made an undisclosed donation to endow the men’s basketball coaching position." This is on top of whatever he gave already.
Princeton has its backers too, but if Harvard alums are going to go over the top on basketball - there isn't a whole lot the other schools can do, other than appeal to their alums. Penn should have its fair share of Wharton millionaires to tap. Even at the current spending levels, I don't see why Penn couldn't get a coach that would make them competitive again, fairly quickly. The talent on the team isn't that bad, and the coaching has been that atrocious, that a return to respectability would be fairly quick.
I have no inside info on Columbia - but where do they play? Robert K. Kraft Field - as in the owner of the Patriots.
As the song says, Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4004
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-24-15 07:29 PM - Post#183541
In response to umbrellaman
Ah, the Donald Trump Chair in Basketball. Better he should buy and rename the Palestra or Franklin Field.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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02-24-15 09:42 PM - Post#183563
In response to Old Bear
Maybe Jon Stewart could show us some love and turn this tragedy into a comedy.
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seas2k4
Junior
Posts: 274
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Musings
02-24-15 09:45 PM - Post#183566
In response to 11Quakers
Steve your answer is Fran Mcaffery.
Could this be true? He was making over 400k at Siena at the time (and makes approx. 2 mil a year now --- if true, looks like President Gutman did him a favor!).
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Musings
02-24-15 09:55 PM - Post#183569
In response to seas2k4
I recall reports that McCaffrey had a provision in his Siena contract that would let him go to Penn without penalty and that at some point the contract was renewed or extended and that provision removed. Not sure of the timeline.
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SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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02-24-15 10:18 PM - Post#183573
In response to Old Bear
While I don't wish to intrude on this overall issue, I do have some strong feeling about Keenan Jeppersen. While he may or may not have had some influence on Penn's success, or lack there of, had transferred, I believe he would have materially helped Brown had he stayed and played for the Bears.
I remember Jeppersen being a really tough guard that year - it's been a while, but I felt like destroyed us up in Providence.
He fit Miller's system to a T. Big guard who was athletic and could post a bit.
And maybe it would have helped Miller to have someone who really believed in the system. One of the strangest things about that year was trying to buy in to the system of rivals we'd beaten. Actually thought Glen did a fine job with us (we were pretty stubborn by that point) but I think it got harder once the losses piled up in subsequent years. Might have been nice for him to have another friend.
As others have pointed out, it's really ugly when a player gets left out to dry by broader institutional concerns. The NCAA is the worst for this when it comes to transfers -- if you've never transferred, at least you have the threat of leaving. If you've transferred once, the second coach can essentially do anything he wants. It's really difficult.
Hate to see anyone stuck in a bad situation.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-24-15 10:49 PM - Post#183577
In response to Old Bear
Sorry but when the student wants to transfer, is qualified to transfer and only cannot transfer because of the politics at the highest levels of both schools that is just plain wrong. Penalize the student is not a good policy. No one was poached, he sought out the transfer so Brown and Penn were wrong on this one.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-25-15 12:03 PM - Post#183600
In response to 91Quake
Agreed - the transfer was totally driven by Jeppersen's attachment to Miller. There was no poaching. The kid asked to come which is not such an unusual phenomenom when a coach moves on.
I don't blame Ruth Simmons for picking up the phone. I think Amy erred in interfering. But - as I stated in my original post - I have heard this was something that hasn't been repeated since that spring and that's to her credit.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-25-15 01:01 PM - Post#183606
In response to AsiaSunset
Before we go giving credit for something undeserved, how often do situations like this actually arise?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-25-15 01:32 PM - Post#183609
In response to Quakers03
I think it is highly unusual, not to mention totally inappropriate, for a Penn President to involve themselves in an individual admissions decision. I only gave her credit for learning a lesson. Many people never learn and grow.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-25-15 02:02 PM - Post#183611
In response to AsiaSunset
This might not be the place for it, but if the football recruiting classes have been down, and it is a result of a new mandate (speculation), who would be the one delivering that mandate? Wouldn't it be Amy? So while she might not be interjecting herself into individual situations, if she dictated a stricter admissions policy, that would be a pretty big deal, no? You obviously know more and have the power to debunk that line of thinking...
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-25-15 02:13 PM - Post#183612
In response to Quakers03
I'm not sure football recruiting is down, but that remains to be seen. There were some issues whether or not to go with Ragone his 5th year after his ankle sprain. Basically we had a player on the field incapable of using his most dangerous play making tool, his legs. But it was a hard call. He was a captain, a winner and a great player at Penn. He just was not a single tool QB and we suffered as a result.
Last year was just a disaster. I've never seen a Penn team pushed around like that. There were some key injuries and the OL was almost all 1st year starters. Still.....
I think this year will tell us more. The QB is very talented and a couple injured and important DL men will be available. And some of the freshmen who took their lumps last year will be a year stronger and wiser. If Penn doesn't bounce back, I'd be worried.
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Ernie Nounou
Freshman
Posts: 12
Reg: 12-21-14
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02-25-15 02:39 PM - Post#183613
In response to AsiaSunset
Count me with Quaker03 and others re your willingness to give Amy credit where it has not been demonstrably earned. It seems to be a reflex action of an apologist if not an insider - which you may or may not be - and which at this point is no longer of importance.
What has Amy learned since that incident? Exhibit A the sorry state of Penn BB during the intervening years. Exhibit B tolerating those contract extension and FB succession fait accompli mismanagement that give the new AD little wiggle room to make meaningful changes. Exhibit C The decline of Penn FB - Harvard consistently wins despite injuries to QBs notwithstanding, and the overall talent level of Penn FB is in decline. Whether this is due to lack of support or whatever, the results speak for themselves. Could this be why AB chose to retire? Exhibit D The entire AB post retirement embarrassment. Put any lipstick on this pig you like, it speaks poorly for all concerned except Columbia and Bollinger.
Speaking of AB, at yesterday's new conference he was asked why Columbia's past failures, and he listed multiple factors beginning with commitment and support from the top - which included funding for necessary Asst coach hirings, better infrastructure etc.- support from alums and interest groups and so on. As a Columbia fan you had to be impressed. As a Penn fan - especially a BB fan - it was a depressing list of all the necessary ingredients for success that have been lacking for Penn sports, including BB during Amy's tenure.
With the greatest respect, any report card on Amy Lessons Learned must include such factors as well.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-25-15 03:04 PM - Post#183614
In response to Ernie Nounou
With all due respect, this thread has become a gripefest intent on parsing every one of AsiaSunset's words for hidden meaning. Give AsiaSunset credit for posting at all.
Also can we keep concerns on point? I could care less about the Jepperson situation right now or about reading more into Bagnoli's actions than is credible reality (and if there is more to it, then find a football board and vent there).
I am reading this thread to mean that Penn is not funding its basketball program to the level of Harvard and perhaps other peers as well; as a result there is not going to be a quick fix to the mess that the basketball program is right now. That is enough to concern me given all the missteps of the past few years.
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