crd012
Junior
Posts: 262
Age: 35
Reg: 12-02-12
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01-05-19 04:17 PM - Post#271217
In response to bison63
Really sad effort. BU had what 25 second chance points? I mean that’s pathetic. I’m tired of seeing this team not sho w up in the first half. I would have liked to see Newman on Mahoney because I honestly think he’s our best big defensively. Yes Moore came alive for 4 mins in the game, but he was flat out bad in the first half. Too many stupid turnovers.
I don’t know, that was an extremely frustrating loss.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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01-05-19 04:27 PM - Post#271222
In response to crd012
I could only watch parts on my phone, but obviously these slow starts are worrisome. Rebounding is an issue. Sestina not very good defensively while I watched. Bench a complete non-factor aside from Meeks. And yes, Moore was good at the end but otherwise was bad, just as he was against Army.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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01-05-19 04:28 PM - Post#271223
In response to bison63
Between the seven and the five minute mark of the 2nd half, after cutting it to 4, we committed several bad turnovers that hurt us down the stretch. Plain and simple, Boston was better today. Very disappointing.
Road games are tough, especially 8 in a row. Boston played their best today and we did not. We cannot keep getting down double digits in the first half. Great games from Mackenzie and Sestina and that brief spurt from Moore. Hopefully, he is OK. Newman did a good job on Mahoney. Disappointed not to see him play in the 2nd half. Boston made the clutch plays at the end. On the the next one - thankfully at home.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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01-05-19 06:46 PM - Post#271292
In response to jkrun80
I echo those thoughts regarding Newman. He actually had a block on Mahoney. Why not use your best shot blocke when the other teams big center is decimating you?
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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01-05-19 07:41 PM - Post#271378
In response to bison63
Every team will go hot and cold offensively. That’s then nature of shots falling or rimming out. However not playing all out defensively is inexcusable. Teams will survive cold shooting spells playing consistent defense and being patient.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-05-19 09:09 PM - Post#271469
In response to bison63
Coaches are not Tony Robbins clones and athletes are not windup dolls. There are no abracadabra magic words that are uttered to suddenly awaken “unmotivated†athletes. The whole premise is ridiculous. Clearly guys starting at this level understand the game starts at 0-0. Putting 40 minutes of sustained energy, concentration and commitment to running (I.e., executing your sets) is a different story and shouldn’t be confused with slow starts. The reality is that the beginnings of games have a very different rythem than when the game is more developed. We had the same problem last year with different personnel. We do net excel in half court/half court play which is how games predominantly start...as teams feel each other out. When SB pressed the pace last year and JS presses it this year we perform better on both ends of the court when the game is faster. Kimbal is really the only guy that excels in a half court set because he scores in so many different ways. Sotos also to a lesser degree. Pace also significantly helps Nate because of his versatility. He’s nowhere near as effective in a post up one on one BTTB situation. One way to get out of the box quicker might be to consider putting on full or 3/4 pressure up to the the under 4 TO. I also don’t think it’s highly speculative to say that Nate has a lot of Zach Thomas in him with respect to getting out of the gate quick. Give BU credit...they moved the ball really well. We struggle with teams that have size to move the ball quickly over the top side to side and in/out to capable spot up shooters. We will struggle again with HC again because of the way they control tempo. Still can’t figure out why Jones came into Sojka last year and played that squad MTM after half courting them to death at Sojka earlier in the year. Anybody know how many times we’ve hit our first shot of the game this year. I don’t - just wondering
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-05-19 10:11 PM - Post#271476
In response to Old Bison
I think I meant the under 16 TO...I.e., put on tactical pressure for the first 5 minutes...we also need to defend the screen and roll better. We seem to perform better defensively when we double down low. I don’t watch tape or replay games and so that’s highly subjective but there may be something in it as it slows down quick reversal of the ball in a lot of instances.,We should probably key it off the shot clock (play straight up 15 tics into the clock and dd after)
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JDBison2010
Masters Student
Posts: 763
Loc: Charleston, SC
Reg: 11-23-10
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Boston U Game
01-05-19 10:15 PM - Post#271477
In response to Old Bison
Anybody know how many times we’ve hit our first shot of the game this year. I don’t - just wondering
Funny that you ask because I had a similar thought today.I felt that every opponent of ours had started off hitting their first shot. Turns out that 10 of our 14 opponents have hit their first shot including our last 7 opponents dating back to Ohio State. We have also only scored first 4 times which ended up all being wins (SB, UVM, La Salle, UNLV). Echo what’s been said by everyone else here. Just can’t afford to dig ourselves in the holes that we do. It’s understandable to go through droughts in a game but can’t let our slow starts become what defines this team
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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01-06-19 09:25 AM - Post#271506
In response to JDBison2010
@OldBison
The intensity level differences on defense to start the game versus the second half when they’re down double digits are visible to the lay fan.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-06-19 10:14 AM - Post#271508
In response to HuskyColonial
Yes, but when you play the game there’s a period of adjustment where skills offset athleticism up until the point where the more athletic team better understands the offensive sets as well as the individual player tendencies. You can identify tendencies on film but it’s no replacement for learned real time exposure. Playing for 40 minutes is an issue that every coach faces. I agree that allowing BU to score 43 in the first half is an issue, but I don’t agree it’s a question of an “itensity switch†that we cognitively adopt in the HT lockeroom. It’s a question of adapting to what the other team is doing to you so your coverage slides and rotations are efficient. How many times this year did the opposing teams get open dunks in the first couple of possessions because The roll of the pick was impeded at all. Your position that our defensive struggles in the first halves are primarily a function of effort is naive. At Dt Mary’s it took 14 minutes of playing time to understand that Avi was the only guard that was effectively able to defend Ford. From your perspective that means KN and JS “decided†not to play hard in the first half...preposterous. You can’t evaluate basketball games in a vacuum...i.e., the other teams have coaches and plans of their own. BU did an absolute superlative job moving the ball in the first half! Army consistently made 3’s in the first half and consistently missed them in the second. Per my mental observations of the game flow and think if you reviewed the tape of the Army game it would clearly show we actually defended the 3 better in the first half than we did in the second but they made “more contested 3’s†in the first half and missed “less contested 3’s†in the second half...how does that support is playing with more defensive intensity in the second half than the first? Also, the big kid Wilson made a number of tough right and left hand hooks with Nate and Paul draped all over him and then missed three layups in the second half that he should have just dunked?
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HoleinOne
Masters Student
Posts: 596
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Reg: 02-15-09
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01-06-19 10:45 AM - Post#271509
In response to Old Bison
Hopefully the starts to the past two games turn out to be exceptions. I come from the "take the top asset away from the competition" model of game preparation. Against Army, announcers pregame assessment mentioned that Funk liked to drive and sure enough, most of the first few possessions saw him drive, in most cases for layups. Against Boston U, announcers mentioned that Mahoney liked to get ball underneath and sure enough, he made many of Boston U's first points. Whose issue is this? Hopefully we don't have to have this conversation after future games.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-06-19 11:09 AM - Post#271512
In response to HoleinOne
Funk’s a good player and it’s tough to keep him out of the lane especially if they’ calling it close defensively on the ball handler. That said...was 4-13...didn’t kill us. Mahoney different story and that has to do with Nate not wanting to get into foul trouble down low and our struggle’s the whole year defend the screen and role. He also hit a 3 and a couple mid range jumpers that helped support his inside scoring. If it was easy shutting down the other teams high scorers than they wouldn’t be the other teams high scorer!!!! Don’t know why we didn’t run a second guy on him like a Lamb. Nate consistently lost him underneath while rotating because they moved the ball so well yesterday
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-06-19 12:31 PM - Post#271518
In response to Old Bison
We gave up 44 in the 2nd half yesterday btw....just sayin’
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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01-06-19 01:17 PM - Post#271526
In response to Old Bison
Old Bison, I really appreciate your passion. I can't argue the minute details of hoops with you since you have much more experience than I do, but as a person who has played a lot of hoops and other sports, I can tell you that by the "eye test", this team is just plain not focused and lacks effort at times. I have no idea why, but something is not right. The Head Coach is paid a lot of money to figure out what that something is. So, hopefully, Coach Davis and his staff will figure it out.
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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crd012
Junior
Posts: 262
Age: 35
Reg: 12-02-12
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01-06-19 01:21 PM - Post#271527
In response to Old Bison
I don’t think anyone said that they played well defensively at any point defensively. The poor rebounding is really what bothered me. Way way too many second chance points and ultimately the reason we lost. They played with more intensity in the second half...but I wouldn’t say they played great. The only thing that has been consistent...has been slow starts and that is what I think frustrates most of us. There has to be some sort adjustment or we’ll be disappointed with the season.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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01-06-19 03:40 PM - Post#271539
In response to crd012
Ok....let’s try for a reset here. Yes, BU got 13 OR’s to our 6 and had 9 more FGA’s if I remember correctly from yesterday’s BS. So that’s a given.
What I am trying to counterpoint is the issue of our “slow startsâ€. If you miss 23 of your first 27 shots then we can reasonably deduct that’s why we started slow. We are identifying the symptom on the posts and I have tried to offer plausible speculation as to why the symptom is manifest. In the case of Army, no speculation is required. Were the other slow starts characterized by similar shooting statistics in the first half. If so, you can reasonably deduct that was an underlying issue. If it wasn’t, what other causes were involved. On memory I would suggest that VT had a similar profile.
The point is that three of the reasons that have been postulated as to possible cause and effect issues are the following:
1. ND is paid a lot of money and he doesn’t know how to prepare his players pre-game
2. The guys don’t understand the game starts at 0-0
3. We don’t play with the same intensity in the first half as the second half
How did ND get the guys prepared for an away game at #14 OSU?
The linear correlation of #3 above would necessarily have to be that our opponents don’t play the second halves as intensely as they do the first half by that line of reasoning.
If you looked at the modern era as having started in 1970 and you use 3.5 as a constant for graduating seniors that means 168 players have come through our program. We don’t even have that many people who donate to the backcourt club. Student Attendance for home regular season games is circa 100-250. These are PATHETIC metrics. Everybody’s a critic, including myself, but I am trying to comment and speculate on fundamental and underlying basketball reasons.
Yes, we did not do a conscientious job putting bodies on BU on the defensive glass!
I think there is reasonable commentary versus frustrated drivel.
I often wonder what could have been if McCollum had matriculed at Buck rather than LU during the Muscala tenure. You can only put 5 guys on the court at the same time and the quality of BUck’s program deserves more support in my mind than it gets from institutional and alumni community as a whole considering the potential ROI to the University as well as the required elements to sustainably attract student athletes that will continue to compete at the level we presently do. The team we had in Flannery’s last year was not good and we will get back there with the present level of apathy.
We’ve been blessed with Flannery, Paulson and ND
Time for me to take a hiatus again. Go Bison
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