Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Another cut at next year
05-01-19 02:57 PM - Post#284071
In response to palestra38
you keep saying that in a way that loses all meaning. if you're an a$$hole, that impacts the success you have. that makes you a bad coach.
i'm a great sales guy except i curse at the customer does not, in fact, make me a great sales guy.
it's very possible that jerome got more out of them than miller would have because jerome wasn't as much of a butt hole to the players. it's also possible that he stood in the way of rosen's success. we will never know. but please stop being so definitive in giving the benefit of the doubt to a jerk.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32875
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Another cut at next year
05-01-19 03:20 PM - Post#284074
In response to Jeff2sf
The guy effectively won a national championship. Ollie did nothing. And he recruited good players at Penn---that cannot be denied.
I am not giving him any benefit of the doubt. Some people simply cannot handle stress beyond a certain point. He broke and it's on him. But the guy can coach basketball....and a nationally recognized great coach like Calhoun sees it.
I don't know why it is so hard for some of us to admit that Miller had some qualities that made him unsuitable to stand up to a complete rebuild, but he is a very good basketball man.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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05-01-19 03:41 PM - Post#284077
In response to palestra38
There's a difference between being a good X-and-O wingman and being a good head coach. Miller wasn't a good head coach, at least not at Penn, and it had nothing to do with what Dunph left him.
It's not like Amaker, Donahue and Martin inherited good situations, but all are good head coaches who turned things around.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32875
Reg: 11-21-04
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Another cut at next year
05-01-19 03:53 PM - Post#284078
In response to TheLine
All of them were given a LOT of time (and Miller was much more successful at Brown than Martin has been). Let's face it--a large percentage of influential Penn alums didn't want Miller in the first place and he was not warmly welcomed. And you must be joking if you think he inherited a good situation---the entire team was about to graduate with no quality starters left behind (Grandieri was a very good 6th man). He immediately recruited, over 2 years, an excellent core of players. Bernardini and Belcore broke down early, Rosen took some time to develop, and the team was left with JV players like Malcolm Washington playing minutes.
But Miller handled things poorly and had to be replaced. Problem was that Bilsky was looking to cover his mistake and doubled down on it with Jerome. Had the right coach been hired then, we would have recoverd quickly, as did Princeton after it made a similar coaching error.
I just find it strange how hostile most here are toward Miller, when in my view, Bilsky is more of a villain and Jerome more of a criminal and all around bad guy.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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05-01-19 04:09 PM - Post#284079
In response to palestra38
I'm not trying to be hostile about Miller.
But let's not compare what Miller inherited to what Amaker, Donahue or Martin did (Jones has been around so long I forget what he inherited). Miller inherited a championship team while Princeton was in the dumps, Harvard hadn't yet hired Amaker, and many of the other schools in the league weren't trying that hard. And Miller still spit the bit.
So let's not whitewash Miller's 'contribution' to Penn basketball. He was an awful coach at Penn who proved to be in over his head and was a major reason for the Lost Years, even if he wasn't the only reason.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32875
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-01-19 04:12 PM - Post#284080
In response to TheLine
I said he had to be fired. But he had his good qualities as a basketball man. And he is a good recruiter. That entire starting lineup that won 20 for Jerome was the only healthy year they had together and they all were recruited by Miller.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-01-19 04:26 PM - Post#284081
In response to palestra38
I do not buy into the idea that "he won a national championship". He was an assistant coach. If the celtics win the championship this year, god I hope not, Jerome didn't win an NBA championship. I don't want to hear anything about what he did or didn't do at Connecticut because we don't know.
He inherited a team that I could have coached to a championship at Penn (Steve, I mean no disrespect, I would just have let you run things). He got the championship. It is telling that he still didn't have much time and that's not because of the alumni but because of who he was. He recruited the guts of an almost ivy champion i guess sounds better than he recruited a team that peaked at KenPom 139 2 years after they were out of his tyranny. And injury riddled is one way to put it, another way is that if Tyler wasn't a senior the same year that Zach was, maybe they don't put it together to be as good.
This is absurd, I can't believe we're having this discussion. He was terrible.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-01-19 04:35 PM - Post#284083
In response to Jeff2sf
Palestra, Son of the Confederacy, 38.
I tell you what, other than that Cultural Revolution, Mao was a statesman.
blah blah blah, hitler, godwin's law.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32875
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-01-19 04:40 PM - Post#284084
In response to Jeff2sf
that was too funny to get upset. OK, we'll leave it at that.
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