iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
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02-06-22 01:26 AM - Post#335555
Well, now seems about as good a time as any to start thinking about the next game. Yale travels to Lavietes for a mid-week rematch from just four days prior. It's really, really hard to beat a team on both legs of a back-to-back, especially when the second leg is at their place. Harvard knows that they need this win desperately to stay in the hunt for the fourth seed in the ILT, and they're coming off an emotional loss, so I'd expect them to bring their best in the second leg.
Yale will need to play an exceptionally sharp game in order to win this. They'll need the intensity from last game coupled with much greater care in hanging onto the ball at a minimum. I think a win is doable for the Bulldogs, but it's a tall order indeed.
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ToothlessTiger
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02-06-22 11:09 AM - Post#335567
In response to iogyhufi
My opinion is that Yale will be slight favorite on the road. Harvard has a great chance to cover a 1 to 3 point spread.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
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02-06-22 11:11 AM - Post#335568
In response to ToothlessTiger
Jones and Swain do not want to play Harvard in the tourney at Cambridge. Winning Wednesday helps very much in that regard.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
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02-06-22 01:17 PM - Post#335590
In response to ToothlessTiger
Crazy, tough and sloppy game last night. Without Ledlum, Yale got its way too much near the basket.
Yale's forwards outscored Harvard's 24-14 and Yale outrebounded Harvard 37-29.
If Ledlum returns, and Harvard makes the tournament at Lavietes, that should change.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
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02-06-22 06:10 PM - Post#335631
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I've wondered what's up with Ledlum. Not sure if he'll come back at all, but certainly if he does that changes the picture. I understand that Forbes hasn't been back for very long but he looked quite poor yesterday.
To me, the key on Wednesday will be who hits shots from outside. Neither team did yesterday (obviously), but doing so changes the calculus on defense a lot. This has in recent history been a real problem for Yale, when, e.g., Djuricic is allowed to get hot and goes like 4-6 from 3. Fortunately, this didn't happen yesterday (aside from two Lesmond threes that were actually defended well), but it's an ever-present threat. Granted, Harvard has fewer outside threats than they recently have had.
Yale has held every team they've faced so far to a very low 3P%, but mrjames is of the opinion that this is the sort of thing that is inherently random and not sustainable. I'm not sure that I agree, but I suppose we'll have to see.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
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02-06-22 10:53 PM - Post#335657
In response to iogyhufi
An announcer on a game a week ago said that Ledlum had been playing with his injury most of the year
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Harvard II
02-07-22 10:53 AM - Post#335691
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
An announcer on a game a week ago said that Ledlum had been playing with his injury most of the year
Injured or not, Ledlum scored 17 in an 11 point loss to Brown a month ago. Brown! Those Harvard fans who are dreaming of a Ledlum miracle if they somehow manage to grab the bottom seed in that little band box of theirs are probably living in fantasy land. Given the rematch this past weekend in Providence, they may be better off without him.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
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02-08-22 12:22 AM - Post#335791
In response to LyleGold
Not quite. Brown won because it shot like it hasn’t all year (15-26 on 3’s). Kudos to Brown.
Harvard was a deep squad. But without Forbes, Ajogbor, Pitcher & Hemmings played without a frontcourt. Remove the entire 4 man depth chart from any other team and likely they won’t do as well as Harvard did OOC.
Ledlum was the top Ivy rebounder and was a leading scorer. Remove him from what remains and it’s a big impact. Lose your starting PG (Tretout) as well and it doesn’t get better. The Crimson have been relying on freshmen who weren’t anticipated to be seeing the court. On the final possessions against Yale we had 3 freshmen, including Sam Silverstein and Evan Nelson. Frankly, for this team to have a shot at the Ivy Tournament is remarkable. Let Forbes continue to play himself into shape with a healthy Ledlum and Tretout and my money would be on the Crimson in the tournament.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
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02-08-22 01:38 AM - Post#335798
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Yeah, um, I would not want my mouth to write checks my giving-up-forty-points-in -ten-minutes-to-Cornell team might find troublesome to cash. Lest we forget, Penn beat Harvard by four at Lavietes in a game where Harvard shot 11-20 from the line, and that was with a 31 point night from Jordan Dingle. Somehow, I suspect the re-addition of Forbes will help the defense (even though subbing out Catchings for Ledlum would probably hurt it) in a potential rematch. I, for one, am rooting quite strongly for Harvard's opponents down the stretch precisely because I don't like the idea of playing a healthy Harvard at home (say that five times fast).
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
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02-08-22 08:55 AM - Post#335807
In response to iogyhufi
Your final sentence was exactly my point.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
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Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-08-22 09:49 AM - Post#335810
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Oh, I was agreeing with you. Penn (much like everyone else in the League) is not nearly good enough to think that they could easily beat any of the teams in the Ivy League (as their home loss to Columbia proves). If nothing else, road games are extremely difficult, and I would not want to play a team with two players like Kirkwood and Ledlum in a true road game if I could avoid it.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32837
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-08-22 10:03 AM - Post#335811
In response to iogyhufi
Has any Penn fan here suggested otherwise?
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Harvard II
02-08-22 11:10 AM - Post#335819
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Not quite. Brown won because it shot like it hasn’t all year (15-26 on 3’s). Kudos to Brown.
Obviously I was being facetious about "maybe H is better off without Ledlum". I'm not being facetious, however, about how Ledlum's presence (and 17 point contribution) didn't keep H from losing to Brown by 11. Every team has had to deal with injuries, including Penn who has remade its squad and style of play with great success. The loss of its two main big men forced it to reimagine its offense and redeploy its remaining big man, JuCo transfer Moshkovitz, in a totally different, but vastly more effective, manner. Penn has subsequently tapped into its bench for another big, freshman Laczkowski, who has been a versatile addition inside and outside in Penn's current streak.
By the way, I AM NOT SAYING THAT WANG AND LORCA LLOYED ARE EQUAL TO LEDLUM.
One other point, Forbes played and was generally effective in Penn's win at Lavietes. It's not totally clear that Iogy recognizes that with his comment about Forbes's "re-addition" in the rematch.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
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Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: Harvard II
02-08-22 11:31 AM - Post#335826
In response to LyleGold
Oh, I knew. My argument, though poorly articulated, was that Forbes will get better as he gets back up to speed, since that was his second game all year and his first in two weeks.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Harvard II
02-08-22 12:20 PM - Post#335831
In response to iogyhufi
Okay, got it. That raises the question of how effective will Ledlum be if, and when, he returns? It's hard to imagine he won't need several games to shake the rust off. I think it is even tougher for a guy of his build to carry that weight without being in game condition, as compared to someone like Forbes who is much lighter.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
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02-08-22 01:13 PM - Post#335836
In response to LyleGold
I started the season hoping that Forbes, Ajogbor, Pitcher, Hemmings and Nelson would return in time to assure Crimson a tournament spot and be back in form for the tournament.
I then added Tretout and Ledlum.
Might well be that Harvard is healthy enough to potentially be the best by Tournament time if we have a starting lineup of Kirkwood, Ledlum, Forbes , Sakota and Catchings/Lesmond. It is not unlikely though, that the timing of their return and subsequent effectiveness won't happen in time for the team to get there.
Of course, other teams have injuries. I'm not at all attempting to gauge the value and lost impact of those players.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32837
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-08-22 01:21 PM - Post#335837
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I'll certainly grant you this---while all teams have injuries, Harvard has managed to put together over the last 5 seasons the most significant injuries in Towns, Aiken and now Ledlum.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-08-22 01:28 PM - Post#335840
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Of course, other teams have injuries. I'm not at all attempting to gauge the value and lost impact of those players.
I know you're not, but others are - quite contentiously.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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02-09-22 12:43 PM - Post#335901
In response to LyleGold
GO HARVARD BEAT YALE
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2692
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-09-22 03:06 PM - Post#335911
In response to yoyo
The fascinating thing about those injuries under current rules is that it allows players to stay 'active' well beyond their Ivy League years!
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