LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
|
03-05-23 07:13 PM - Post#353215
In response to penn nation
I am not sure I follow your argument, but I do know
your facts are off. Slatchertis the 10th leading scorer in the Ivies
and Martz is 18th.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
Pennsylvania
03-05-23 07:22 PM - Post#353217
In response to LocalTiger
I am not sure I follow your argument, but I do know
your facts are off. Slatchertis the 10th leading scorer in the Ivies
and Martz is 18th.
In conference play, Martz is 20th and Slajchert is 22nd.
https://ivyleague.com/stats.aspx?path=mbball&y...
You're welcome--no apologies needed.
Edited by penn nation on 03-05-23 07:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
|
03-05-23 07:54 PM - Post#353219
In response to penn nation
None offered. In League play, Princeton only has one other guy in the top 20, Allocco with 1 more point than Martz.
The disparity in surrounding scoring talent you claim
is not apparent in the numbers.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
Pennsylvania
03-05-23 08:22 PM - Post#353222
In response to LocalTiger
None offered. In League play, Princeton only has one other guy in the top 20, Allocco with 1 more point than Martz.
The disparity in surrounding scoring talent you claim
is not apparent in the numbers.
Oh, it's quite glaring.
Penn (76.1) and Princeton (75.8) score roughly around the same number of points per game.
But Dingle, Penn's highest scorer, had to score 7 more points per game than Tosan (23.2 vs 16.3) in order for this to happen. Collectively, the rest of Penn only scores 52.9 points per game versus Princeton's 59.5
Meaning that Dingle had to account for 30.5% of Penn's offensive output as opposed to Tosan's 21.5% of Princeton's scoring.
Edited by penn nation on 03-05-23 08:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
|
03-05-23 08:43 PM - Post#353225
In response to penn nation
My general feeling is that Allocco and Lamborg are both a tad underrated and/or taken for granted. Neither one has the keys to the car offensively, and Langborg is often dogged by defenders determined to deny him touches, without much besides the odd post handoff used to free him. Meanwhile both have to play staunch defense on opponents’ top perimeter threats and come up with bail-out shots at the end of the shot clock.
They both need to be more consistently clutch to get that recognition, I suspect, but Allocco’s terrific last seven minutes against Penn this time didn’t really register on many observers.
|
LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
|
03-05-23 08:56 PM - Post#353227
In response to SRP
Tosan contributes to the offense with assists.
Penn Nation ignores that. It is one of the reasons Tosan is a more complete and valuable player if the goal is to win games.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-05-23 09:05 PM - Post#353230
In response to LocalTiger
Not ignoring anything. The subject here is why Dingle has to score so darned much. It's the only way Penn has a chance of winning.
It looked like Slajchert was on the cusp of being a real dynamic duo with Dingle which would have significantly reduced Dingle's scoring burden and allowed him to diversify. But early in the Ivy campaign he just lost it and for the most part hasn't been anywhere close to the same player he was in OOC play or early Ivy play.
The fact that Dingle has been able to churn out the scoring output game after game all the while for the most part doing it efficiently (the Princeton game was a poor one from that perspective but he still had a nice ORAT nonetheless) is just a testament to how incredible of a season he had, not just within the IL but nationally.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-05-23 09:31 PM - Post#353236
In response to jeromelh
My objection is more to your statement Dingle hasn’t improved. He has improved markedly in every way since freshman year. In addition to all the ways Penn Nation ticked off offensively, he also has gotten better defensively every year. Freshman year he wouldn’t have been on Allocco at the end. He’s become a much stronger perimeter defender, to the point where he is at times guarding the opponent’s best perimeter player. Now he gets tougher assignments, which comes with the possibility that he’s going to get beat. I assume you didn’t watch the first half yesterday and think “Allocco can’t play defense.” He can. That’s why he’s guarding Dingle. Sometimes you give up baskets when you draw those matchups, no matter what you do. Allocco made some plays at the end. It happens.
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
|
03-05-23 09:33 PM - Post#353237
In response to penn nation
Without niggling I think that we could all agree that these are both exceptional players both of whom we would love to have in our lineups.
|
ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
|
03-06-23 01:31 PM - Post#353282
In response to Tiger69
According to Henderson Allocco is assigned the other team's best scorer. Obviously that is not because he is a bad defender. He also has an off the charts will to win. His game is not pretty to watch but you will always see him on the floor at the end of close games.
|
jeromelh
Junior
Posts: 215
Age: 81
Reg: 03-30-17
|
03-07-23 02:03 PM - Post#353353
In response to SomeGuy
Hi
If you read my post I wasn’t knocking his offense. He is quick, athletic and strong. He should be a very good defender but he isn’t. He also doesn’t pass well. I am really not trying to knock the kid. He is a great offensive player. When he penetrates he could kick it out to an open shooter. But he almost never does.
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Pennsylvania
03-07-23 03:53 PM - Post#353363
In response to jeromelh
Hi
If you read my post I wasn’t knocking his offense. He is quick, athletic and strong. He should be a very good defender but he isn’t. He also doesn’t pass well. I am really not trying to knock the kid. He is a great offensive player. When he penetrates he could kick it out to an open shooter. But he almost never does.
It helps that when he penetrates the 6’3” Dingle converts his 2-Pt. FGA at a better % than the 6’9” Tosan.
It also helps that when he gets fouled—at a very high rate just behind that of Tosan on their respective FGA—he actually converts those FTs. Meanwhile in his 4th year Evbuomwan is still hurting his team when he goes to the line at his high rate with his now barely mediocre 65%.
There are many ways a player can help his team’s offensive production. I could argue, for example, that Tosan this year may have kicked the ball out to perimeter shooters too much on a team which has been 7th in 3-Pt. % in league play, and that he should have been looking more to put himself in better scoring position in the post.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-07-23 03:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-07-23 05:15 PM - Post#353373
In response to LocalTiger
he beat you AGAIN.
Seems like someone just beat you head on, one on one.
lol
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-07-23 05:25 PM - Post#353378
In response to jeromelh
And if you read my post, I wasn’t suggesting you were knocking his offense.
|
jeromelh
Junior
Posts: 215
Age: 81
Reg: 03-30-17
|
Re: Pennsylvania
03-07-23 05:26 PM - Post#353380
In response to Chip Bayers
Hi Chip
You are still missing my point. When this debate began, I never criticized Dingle's offense and that it didn't get better. It is his lack of assists, poor defense, and mediocre passing. This has not improved.
I don't know who the POY should be, honestly. However, Tosan has never been a great scorer and I regret that he has never developed a 10-15 foot jumper. However, he leads that Ivy League in assists. He has an uncanny ability to find the open man. His assist level would even be higher if the Tigers were a better 3 point shooting team. He is also a superb defensive player.
If you want to claim that Dingle is a much better offensive player than Tosan, you won't get any argument from me.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Re: Pennsylvania
03-07-23 05:29 PM - Post#353383
In response to jeromelh
For the record, you did say “he hasn’t added anything to his game this year.” That is what I was reacting to.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
Re: Pennsylvania
03-07-23 05:30 PM - Post#353384
In response to SomeGuy
For the record, you did say “he hasn’t added anything to his game this year.” That is what I was reacting to.
Right, I think we have successfully negated that point.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
|
03-07-23 05:38 PM - Post#353388
In response to jeromelh
According to the Head Coaches in the League, Dingle is the best player in the league.
|
LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
|
03-07-23 06:29 PM - Post#353391
In response to PennFan10
When Tosan won the award Unanimously last year, the Penn Board
said it was not the best player, but the most valuable. This year,
the argument has been that Penn needed him more than any other single player, which is different from saying he is best.
I would have voted differently, but Dingle had a great year.
By the way, Tosan has only played three years. He has remaining eligibility, and will be fun to watch continue his improvement next year. He has been a great representative of Princeton basketball.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
|
03-07-23 08:03 PM - Post#353400
In response to LocalTiger
Penn posters are not a homogenous group. I never said any of that. If you are gonna quote someone then quote that person. There is zero inconsistency here in my view.
|
