AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-30-23 10:15 AM - Post#357737
Max announced that he is taking a medical retirement and will not be playing basketball for Penn this fall.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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08-30-23 10:58 AM - Post#357738
In response to AsiaSunset
Let the youth movement begin!
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-30-23 11:05 AM - Post#357739
In response to PennFan10
Wow! Did he mention what his ailment is?
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-30-23 11:38 AM - Post#357741
In response to Penn90
How many years of eligibility would Max Martz have as a grad transfer, somewhere else, starting in 2024-25? Would it be one year or two years?
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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08-30-23 11:39 AM - Post#357742
In response to Stuart Suss
He would only have one more. He was the same class as Dingle.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-30-23 11:53 AM - Post#357743
In response to CM
Does Max have this season's eligibility (which he will not use at Penn), plus the bonus Covid year of eligibility which is available outside the Ivy League?
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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08-30-23 11:57 AM - Post#357744
In response to Stuart Suss
No. He has this season, that's it.
While every other D1 player got essentially 5 years of eligibility from the 'covid year', Ivy players got 4. The fact they got robbed of an entire season by Ivy League administrators falls under the 'well at least you get an Ivy degree" catch all of excuses.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Max Martz 08-30-23 12:39 PM - Post#357746
In response to CM
Thanks to Max and all he brought to Penn, I remember being at the tournament out here in CA at Anaheim when he was a Frosh raining 3s, was fun to watch in person.
Beyond that, I can't blame him, there is no reason to beat his body up for a season going nowhere. It really must tell you something about the state of the program when two kids, who loved playing at Penn so much that they took a year off school to preserve eligibility, have now transferred and retired for their senior years.
For avoidance of doubt, what it tells me is that we aren't in a great shape. Adding this into the mix for this upcoming season, I tend to doubt we will even reach the heights of mediocrity (aka fighting until last moment to be in the Ivy tournament).
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21256
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Max Martz 08-30-23 02:28 PM - Post#357747
In response to Mike Porter
If this does not spell the death knell of SD beyond this season, nothing will.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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08-30-23 03:04 PM - Post#357748
In response to penn nation
his year's Freshman class looks very promising to me. I think we have some real ballers there. The problem is that they won't get paired with vets, which will give them a very limited championship window. We HAVE to follow them with another strong recruiting class, hopefully with some very physical front court players and a sky-walking, sharp-shooting small forward or two!
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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08-30-23 03:39 PM - Post#357749
In response to Penndemonium
Imagine when this year's incoming freshmen committed to Penn and they thought they could get to play on a really good team with Jordan Dingle and Max Martz. And now.....
Both Martz's and Dingle's departures can be explained away, but if the program was thriving they'd both be suiting up in the Palestra this year.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-30-23 04:42 PM - Post#357751
In response to CM
Agreed.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3060
Reg: 10-20-14
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Max Martz 08-30-23 05:26 PM - Post#357753
In response to Penn90
https://pennathletics.com/news/2023/8/30/mens-b ask...
Maybe I'm being incredibly naive here, but the use of the word retirement makes it seem like he is done playing competitive basketball. If it was an injury which needed him to miss all or most of the '23-'24 season, and he expects to play for someone in '24-'25, why wouldn't Penn simply announce he is missing the year due to injury, like Yale WBB did with Camilla Emsbo last year?
https://yalebulldogs.com/news/2022/10/18/women s-ba...
Edited by rbg on 08-30-23 05:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1122
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: Max Martz 08-30-23 08:55 PM - Post#357756
In response to rbg
Penn now has lost six of its top ten players from last year, including three of its top five players. We are back to the post-AJ year where we will be trying out inexperienced players. Such is the fate of a program with no depth.
Let's hope it will be interesting at least.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-30-23 08:59 PM - Post#357757
In response to rbg
Agreed, this, along with Dingle, is not a good look for Donahue. Unless his contract is over after this season, I don’t expect a newish President and a newish Athletic Director to tackle this problem absent a strong push from the most influential alumni or important financial boosters. This is especially true because he has won once and been to the Ivy tourney every year. Neither the President nor the AD is an alum or appears to have any particular background in Penn hoops that would cause me to believe that on their own they would be ready to push Donahue out. Moreover, the optimist in me says, as I did with Dingle, there can be addition by subtraction. We have an excellent freshman class ( unproven but with loads of potential based on their bios), which makes us at least two deep at all five positions. With two heavy hitters gone, now, finally, there is daylight for fierce completion for meaningful playing time. This could make us more competitive than we otherwise might have been by the time the Ivy season begins. If good upper class leadership remains, we have the tools to be good or very good. If the latter, this will be to the coaching staff’s credit. If not, let the wolves howl.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-31-23 06:53 AM - Post#357761
In response to pennsive
A small correction - our AD is both a Penn alum and a former Penn varsity athlete. She bleeds red and blue.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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08-31-23 07:22 AM - Post#357762
In response to pennsive
Yeah, have to disagree. There is no possible scenario in which a player like Martz walking into your office and saying he's not going to be playing for you next year is a positive. It's all negatives, and in lots of different ways.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8293
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-31-23 08:26 AM - Post#357763
In response to AsiaSunset
A small correction - our AD is both a Penn alum and a former Penn varsity athlete. She bleeds red and blue.
That’s a significant (and welcome) correction.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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Max Martz 08-31-23 08:44 AM - Post#357764
In response to Streamers
And she is now starting her third year. How long before she could/should/would make a change and the easiest hire of her tenure by offering Langel the job?
Edited by 91Quake on 08-31-23 08:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 435
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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08-31-23 08:53 AM - Post#357765
In response to 91Quake
I hope the kid is okay.
Fwiw, it is at least possible that
this has nothing to do with the
coach.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-31-23 09:45 AM - Post#357766
In response to LocalTiger
The decision to play a physical sport in college that could have long term negative impact on one’s physical well-being is a difficult one. Do I think ( not know) that Jordan Dingle’s decision not to return may have tipped that balance for Max - maybe. Do I think it had to do with Coach Donahue? I doubt it.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21256
Reg: 12-02-04
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Max Martz 08-31-23 10:25 AM - Post#357770
In response to AsiaSunset
There have been posters here, who claim some inside knowledge, that the Penn program as currently constituted played a role in Dingle’s decision. Therefore if one hypothesizes that Martz’s decision was impacted by Dingle’s, SD bears some responsibility here as well.
Edited by penn nation on 08-31-23 10:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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Max Martz 08-31-23 12:03 PM - Post#357775
In response to penn nation
I realize that there is a lot of hand-wringing about what the losses of Dingle and Martz means for our prospects this year and also the future of our program. It is obviously a real issue.
This could be a more fun season for me to watch than I've had for a while. While of course winning seasons are generally more fun for me than losing ones, but the most fun seasons for me were when the team battled and exceeded low expectations. Everyone being hyper-critical and calling for firings on this board is as much of bummer for me as actual bad play. Sometimes I just want to enjoy the kids' journey. Some of my favorite years had some of our bad teams in a relatively empty Palestra. I felt really connected to the basketball when it was a personal and lonely experience - where the people in the gym were true fans and not tourists.
I know sometimes I'm guilty of being the critical guy too. I didn't even calls for Miller and Allen to be fired, even though they certainly deserved it. I wanted their firings because of their inability to run a coherent program for the kids - not because of their terrible records. They simply lacked leadership and management skill. Philly style sports fans are passionate, but sometimes the kill the fun sometimes.
May the team play above their individual abilities in 2022-2023 and have a great experience in the process. I'm really excited to see the Freshman!
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8293
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Max Martz 08-31-23 01:39 PM - Post#357777
In response to 91Quake
And she is now starting her third year. How long before she could/should/would make a change and the easiest hire of her tenure by offering Langel the job?
Langel signed an extension last year that takes him though 2030. I assume there is a hefty buyout clause in there.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-31-23 01:59 PM - Post#357779
In response to CM
Only positive is that weird people like me think about things like “who would be our starting 5 if you took away our top two players?” Now I get to find out. I also think there is a certain subset (or type) of fan that always wants to dispense with the experienced guys and see what we’ve got in the young guys. Kind of always looking ahead instead of focusing on where we are. Now, we have to look ahead, I think.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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08-31-23 02:27 PM - Post#357780
In response to SomeGuy
Sorry such a poorly written comment from me above - was multi-tasking and clearly wasn't all there.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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08-31-23 03:50 PM - Post#357782
In response to SomeGuy
If you're only looking at current setting, then you're missing WHY things are the way they are. Good, healthy program cultures do not have players like Dingle and Martz walk away from them.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-31-23 05:33 PM - Post#357787
In response to CM
Sticking to the state of things and how to move forward, it seems like Polonowski could stand to gain significant playing time now. Hope he’s ready to go from day one. We seem thin enough up front that this (yet again) suggests we play small. So Laz and Holland seem like the guys who could be our undersized 4 if Polonowski isn’t ready.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2142
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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08-31-23 08:08 PM - Post#357789
In response to SomeGuy
From what I've seen, Martz is taking a medical retirement. Without knowing what the injury situation is, I don't think it's fair to speculate about other potential reasons for his decision.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1156
Reg: 07-28-07
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08-31-23 08:48 PM - Post#357790
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Max is a great kid and I’m very sad that he felt he had to end his Penn career this way. OTOH, he will graduate from Penn and be successful in life. Have gotten to know whose parents over his time here and can affirm that they, too, are great people. I wish Max great success in whatever he chooses to do and thank him for his contributions to Penn’s program.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-01-23 04:04 PM - Post#357807
In response to SomeGuy
Sticking to the state of things and how to move forward, it seems like Polonowski could stand to gain significant playing time now. Hope he’s ready to go from day one. We seem thin enough up front that this (yet again) suggests we play small. So Laz and Holland seem like the guys who could be our undersized 4 if Polonowski isn’t ready.
Besides Spinoso (6-9 240), who is obviously going to play a major role this year, the candidates for playing the 4/5 for Penn are as follows:
Augie Gerhart, 6-9 235. This incoming freshman is going to be a key. The good news is I think he is more than ready to play right away. He played at a high level on a shoe company circuit team and more than held his own against the top talent in the country. He has great footwork on the block, can attack from the perimeter against big defenders and
has developed an outside shot (over 40% from 3 on low volume). I expect Augie to be a key part of the rotation spelling Spinoso and occasionally playing alongside him.
Christian Ubochi (6-9 210). Out last year with issues, Ubochi's ability to contribute this year will tell us a lot about the Donahue era. Penn absolutely needs one of these other bigs to be able to play meaningful minutes and Ubochi is the likely candidate. A bouncy 6-9 who is long. He won't add much on the offensive end but be he is a rim protector if he can be in the right spots and stay out of foul trouble. His ability to defend at a high level and rebound will put him on the floor, a lot.
Johnnie Walter (6-10 215) I don't expect this freshman to contribute at all this year but if he is able, its a huge plus.
as far as smaller players who can play "big" you are looking at:
Eddie Holland (6-6 210). Absolutely critical this guy plays a lot and plays well. Its put up time for this highly touted recruit. We need him to be a double double machine and a high level defender. If not, it's gonna be a long season. If he develops the ability to create off the dribble....bonus.
Nik Polonowski (6-6 210) this incoming freshman can absolutely shoot it (think Ryan Betley--maybe not quite that good from 3 but close) and his ability to defend and rebound could earn him a lot of minutes as a frosh.
In terms of the perimeter, our primary scorer by default is going to be Clark Slajchert, which is concerning given his penchant for long stretches of no contribution last year during games. But Clark is a fiery competitor and gym rat so he will come in healthy and ready to be aggressive, which we will need. Clark might be one of the only guys we have that can create his own shot.
George Smith obviously will be featured prominently but he is not one who can regularly create his own shot.
Clearly two of: Laczkowski Cam Thrower and Reese McMullen will need to take a significant step up in performance and consistency this year for us to succeed at all.
From there we need at least 1 of the freshman guards to have the ability to take minutes: Brown, Perkins, Polonowski.
I think the locked in starters are:
Slajchert
Smith
Holland
Spinoso
And one of the following: Laz, Thrower, McMullen
The other two will be part of rotation along with Gerhart. That's 8 and then it's a matter of which of the other frosh get in the mix.
Definitely a lot of inexperience and lack of scoring. Player development will be on full display this season and might be the factor that dictates this staff's future.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 432
Reg: 10-11-18
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09-01-23 05:48 PM - Post#357810
In response to PennFan10
Who brings the ball up and initiates the offense this year? With a thin team from an experience perspective they'll need to scheme the heck out of the offense to compete and that will require a very good PG. Is that Clark S?
As well, about Ubochi, saw him play (sparingly) in Red v Blue last year and looked a long long way from being able to contribute anything. Yes, very athletic and bouncey, but a total foul magnet who seemed several steps behind the action. Granted that was a year ago, but he didn't play at all last year so it's unclear how much we can expect him to have improved.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1122
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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09-02-23 10:14 PM - Post#357814
In response to CM
In thinking about where Penn is going to get winning basketball this year I did an analysis of the players getting the most time for the last five games of the six years of Steve's program. I assume that those players made the most contribution. That's why they were on the floor.
Then I looked to see how many of those players got significant time in their first years. (There were two transfers.) 22 of the thirty were in the top five in their first years. (That's 73%.) Good players get time early. Last year's team was not so full of stars to deny time to very good newcomers.
This year's team will have only one such instant contributor in Clark S. It will have to get four starters without that Freshman significance. Fortunately, the team has an outlier in Spinosa, so it will need three new faces.
These odds suggest that two of those players will be freshmen, with only one existing player upping his game enough to start. That will most likely be Smith who may buck the odds like Spinosa. This history does not look kindly on the prospects of Thrower, Laz, or Holland breaking through. Sure one or more, like Laz, or Smith, last year, will contribute depth. However, one does not win many games if its depth players are getting the majority of minutes.
In the Donahue era, such late developing-players turned out very well five times (Woods Foreman, Howard, Rothschild, Spinosa). Note, however, that the first four were Allen recruits who were probably mismanaged during their freshman years. Steve has, so far, only one player develop into a starter after a modest freshman start, Spinosa.
This suggests that two or three of the freshmen will emerge as starters, just as AJ, Devon, and Betley did in 2017, and Dingle, Martz, and Monroe did in 2020. That is what happens when a team returns so little talent.
Could they fund a winner? AJ, Betley, and Dingle are the examples of Donahue Frosh who STARRED their first year. The other sixteen Donahue recruits did not. Those odds say that Nick and Clark will be surrounded by depth players. It is worrying that,at best, Penn may have only one good scorer on the court a third of the time, assuming that Nick and Clark are healthy. Should they miss time, Penn will have no reliable scorer on the court a third of the time, and a defense keying on the one scorer the rest of the game.
Unless we have a winter of blue snow. Is there a Betley, Dingle, or AJ suiting up for the first time this year? I suppose we could find a diamond in the rough like Dingle or Betley. There is no high-rated recruit in this class. Or maybe Cam
So, forgive me for concluding that a team that loses six of its top ten players will struggle. Let's hope it will be interesting at least. Twenty losses are more likely than an appearance in Ivy Madness. My but I hope I am wrong.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-03-23 07:21 AM - Post#357815
In response to UPIA1968
Tyler Perkins is not a depth player. Skeptical of our big man rotation behind Spinoso. Beyond that, who knows?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-03-23 10:21 AM - Post#357819
In response to PennFan10
Walter should be a soph, as a transfer. My guess is that he will be ahead of Ubochi, but I am often wrong.
I’m also less certain of Holland as a starter. I agree that Nick and Clark are locks, and Smith is close to a lock.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-03-23 10:22 AM - Post#357820
In response to CM
I assume the offense initiates similarly to last year, with Clark and Smith bringing the ball up and starting the offense.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-03-23 07:02 PM - Post#357822
In response to SomeGuy
What makes this an intriguing season (and one of the reasons for optimism) is that SD will have to try something different from the same old-same old this year to be really competitive, While we lost great players, were they to have returned, SD's plays, offense , and defense likely would have been a carbon copy of the past two years. I am hoping that Steve will be forced to be more creative with his offense and defensive schemes, and allow more height and quickness to create mismatches in our favor for a change. From my vantage point, Clark and Jordan were not complimentary pieces so much as they both were scorers who played along side one another without the benefit of a true point guard. When teams adjusted to our predictable offense, whether seven minutes into the Iona game, or in the second half against Princeton when we tired, we were toast. Imagine, for example, in the coming season, playing Holland and freshman Augie Gerhart along side Spinoso and Perkins at the 2 guard, or our 6'5"freshman guard Nik Polonowski as the 2 guard and Perkins and George Smith playing the 3 position, or Clark playing the 2 guard and Reese McMullen playing point, or other combinations that Steve can try out to see who can contribute and how many different looks he will now have the freedom to throw at other teams because he is not locked into predictably the same players in the same positions for the third year in a row. Obviously, Dingle and Martz are huge losses, but had they returned, I doubt that SD would have changed up his offense and defense in any material way. Hopefully, Steve seizes the moment and shows why he deserved national coach of the year award when he took Cornell to the Sweet Sixteen.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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09-03-23 07:23 PM - Post#357823
In response to pennsive
Yeah, our offense wasn't as imaginative the last few years, as our starters other than Dingle weren't great on offense, didn't handle the ball that well, and didn't pass that well. The best ways to use Dingle was one-on-one in clear-outs or occasionally with a screen. It was an adaptation away from the normal Donahue offense.
Some things about this team over the next few years that will be different is that I project we will have much more ball-handling potential, more shooters, and more high IQ players. We will lose a lot of athleticism and shot creation in Dingle.
The team will need to go back to the Donahue style, which will hopefully involve much crisper passing, ball-handing, and shooting than we've had in recent years. We will need more help defensively and on the boards.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-04-23 08:25 AM - Post#357825
In response to Penndemonium
I haven’t noticed just one single approach on the offensive side of the ball since Donahue has been our coach. When we had both Max and AJ we utilized a lot of high/low action. Then we transitioned into the “no mid range shots allowed” era which was heavily weighted on analytics but I thought was taken to the extreme. Finally we transitioned to an offense either designed around AJ and then Dingle. In all cases I didn’t notice a lack of ball movement; rather, heavy use of Penn’s best offensive weapon.
What will we try to employ this year without Jordan and Max? We’ll
see. Best guess it will need to be tweaked some from past approaches.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-04-23 09:43 AM - Post#357826
In response to AsiaSunset
You are correct. The issue has been overuse and almost single- minded dependence on a go-to star player instead of development of a sufficient number of alternative go-to scoring threats and multiple defenses to avoid predictability and to confuse our opponents. Other examples of this are our standard out of bounds plays and our offense, our inability to play consistent lock down defense in the last seven seconds of the shot clock, and preventing athletic teams from crashing the boards. Obviously, as many on this board pointed out, much of that was also a function of the staff’s inability to recruit enough star power to make that happen. I think that this year’s freshman class may be the first exception in a long time to our failure to bring in multiple players in one class with that potential. Now let’s see what SD can do with his abundant crop that can, with good coaching, add nicely to our returning players.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-04-23 09:49 AM - Post#357827
In response to pennsive
Correction to fifth line: “and our offense” should have printed as “on offense.”
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-04-23 01:28 PM - Post#357829
In response to UPIA1968
In thinking about where Penn is going to get winning basketball this year I did an analysis of the players getting the most time for the last five games of the six years of Steve's program. I assume that those players made the most contribution. That's why they were on the floor.
Then I looked to see how many of those players got significant time in their first years. (There were two transfers.) 22 of the thirty were in the top five in their first years. (That's 73%.) Good players get time early. Last year's team was not so full of stars to deny time to very good newcomers.
This year's team will have only one such instant contributor in Clark S. It will have to get four starters without that Freshman significance. Fortunately, the team has an outlier in Spinosa, so it will need three new faces.
These odds suggest that two of those players will be freshmen, with only one existing player upping his game enough to start. That will most likely be Smith who may buck the odds like Spinosa. This history does not look kindly on the prospects of Thrower, Laz, or Holland breaking through. Sure one or more, like Laz, or Smith, last year, will contribute depth. However, one does not win many games if its depth players are getting the majority of minutes.
In the Donahue era, such late developing-players turned out very well five times (Woods Foreman, Howard, Rothschild, Spinosa). Note, however, that the first four were Allen recruits who were probably mismanaged during their freshman years. Steve has, so far, only one player develop into a starter after a modest freshman start, Spinosa.
This suggests that two or three of the freshmen will emerge as starters, just as AJ, Devon, and Betley did in 2017, and Dingle, Martz, and Monroe did in 2020. That is what happens when a team returns so little talent.
Could they fund a winner? AJ, Betley, and Dingle are the examples of Donahue Frosh who STARRED their first year. The other sixteen Donahue recruits did not. Those odds say that Nick and Clark will be surrounded by depth players. It is worrying that,at best, Penn may have only one good scorer on the court a third of the time, assuming that Nick and Clark are healthy. Should they miss time, Penn will have no reliable scorer on the court a third of the time, and a defense keying on the one scorer the rest of the game.
Unless we have a winter of blue snow. Is there a Betley, Dingle, or AJ suiting up for the first time this year? I suppose we could find a diamond in the rough like Dingle or Betley. There is no high-rated recruit in this class. Or maybe Cam
So, forgive me for concluding that a team that loses six of its top ten players will struggle. Let's hope it will be interesting at least. Twenty losses are more likely than an appearance in Ivy Madness. My but I hope I am wrong.
I'm not sure how you quantified "significant" time but a couple clarifications here (none of which change you excellent point). The Allen recruits you mention (Howard, Foreman, Woods, Rothschild) are not all the same class. Howard was a Junior in Donahue's' first year and Foreman/Woods were sophomores. Though he was an Allen recruit, Rothschild played all 4 years under Donahue along with Silpe, Jackson D, and Tyler Hamilton--all of whom were Allen recruits. Of your examples only Howard was an exception. He played only 6 min a game as a freshman under Allen. Antonio Woods averaged 32 min a game as a frosh and Foreman played 21 min a game. Under Donahue, Rothschild played 15 min a game as a freshman (starting 2) and I believe played in every game over 4 years for which he was healthy. Silpe and Jackson D both played extensively as freshman, starting 20 and 17 games respectively. Eddie Scott and MLL may be exceptions who played little early and contributed significantly later.
Your point is taken, though, and the evidence strongly suggests at least two freshmen will be on the floor this year. I would bet on Gerhart, Brown and possibly Perkins being significant contributors.
As far as Ubochi, I was hoping his story was more like MLL's who was injured and came back to be a solid rim protector and contributor.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-04-23 02:49 PM - Post#357830
In response to PennFan10
*for Ubochi, I should say "I am hoping" not "was hoping" .
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