10Q
Professor
Posts: 23420
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-18-23 08:17 PM - Post#359445
In response to Chip Bayers
This certainly puts things in perspective. Looking like another long year.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21225
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-18-23 08:22 PM - Post#359446
In response to 10Q
We were down a couple of key players. Thrower was hurt and I did not see Holland in there in the 2nd half.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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MD Eastern Shore
11-18-23 08:34 PM - Post#359448
In response to 10Q
This was a winnable game. Turnovers and the inability to secure defensive rebounds killed us, as did a hot shooting streak by a team that hadn't been hitting three pointers so far this season.
If Spinoso had played the first half the way he did down the stretch and into overtime, the team collectively made free throws and did a better job of closing out on shooters, we most likely win. As for Holland not getting second half minutes, I thought it was more a question of sticking with Laz, who made a bunch of hustle plays that helped us at critical points in the half.
Sam Brown impressed me. He started by making five straight free throws and then four huge three pointers. The kid is definitely part of the rotation.
The loss is disappointing, but I think some growth comes out of it.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 11-18-23 08:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1421
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: MD Eastern Shore
11-18-23 08:56 PM - Post#359449
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I don’t know how this happens after knocking off Villanova, but maybe that’s just what happens after knocking off Villanova.
I only have the box score to go off but there are only two stats in favor of UMES: turnovers and number of shots.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: MD Eastern Shore
11-18-23 10:16 PM - Post#359454
In response to Bruno
Remember, other than Slajchert, Smith and Spinoso, this is still a very young team that doesn't have a lot of game experience.
I thought UMES' physicality knocked us back on our heels from the start of the game, and it took a while to get past that. Very similar to the St. Joe's game. Nova didn't play with the same level of physical intensity, and that was to our benefit.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: MD Eastern Shore
11-18-23 10:42 PM - Post#359457
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Yes, we were playing 2 freshmen down the stretch and in OT, one of them in his first game of the season. Brown was a revelation on offense but I think the inexperience of the unit as a whole mattered on D late.
Wilson, the Toledo transfer who hit the tying 3 (heavily contested by Laz) to send it to OT was 0-5 on the season and 4-29 in his career behind the arc coming into this game.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 11-18-23 10:45 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-18-23 10:50 PM - Post#359458
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Lots of aspects to this game.
Obviously Penn is not ready to contend, YET I hope. 21 turnovers and 60% foul shooting will win few games.
Tyler is a player, but far from a star yet. At 3-14 he had as many turnovers as made field goals. He was also 1-4 from the line.
Spinosa is a beast on the boards but had 7 turnovers, three more than made shots.
George Smith took 2 shots in 35 minutes of play. Penn cannot be a good team with such a dead spot among the guards.
Who said Brown would be a distributer? 17 points on 4-6 from three, 5-5 from the stripe. His performance suggests that Penn has two freshmen who can play.
Another good rebounding game.
Coulda, shoulda be undefeated.
Yet teams that turn the ball over and miss free throws are not winning teams.
Lots of teases here, still there is quite a ways to go towards excellence. I guess that is what one expects from a team with many new players.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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MD Eastern Shore
11-19-23 02:38 AM - Post#359459
In response to UPIA1968
This is a young team and hope they learn from it, but just to put in context, UMES was closer to being the worst rated team in the country than Nova was to being the best rated. I.e., this was a terrible loss and there is no sugar coating it.
Before the game they were ranked 352, only 10 worse rated teams in the country. Even after this win they only moved up to 345 (and their offense even after the game is 357). Meanwhile we rode a rocket ship down 30 spots to nearly 200.
Clark was peak Clark, Laz had some real positives, and Sam Brown showed he deserves minutes when healthy, but no one else showed up for this one unfortunately. Perkins is going to be a great Quaker but this team needs a good performance nightly from him to win (interesting that his only bad games were losses even when Clark played well).Spinoso has been the most disappointing to start the year. His ORAT is sitting at 76.5 through 5 games and has been a turnover machine.
Going to be a high variance year I guess. Lets hope for much better play next weekend at home and that Thrower will be back for then.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: MD Eastern Shore
11-19-23 06:55 AM - Post#359461
In response to Mike Porter
Delaware State loss all over again. So much for the glow.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: MD Eastern Shore
11-19-23 08:02 AM - Post#359465
In response to Mike Porter
I think the transfer portal has made the early season Pomeroy ratings dependence on the previous year’s results increasingly unreliable, with such huge roster turnover year-to-year on so many teams now.
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andybech
Freshman
Posts: 82
Reg: 02-15-20
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11-19-23 09:51 AM - Post#359466
In response to Chip Bayers
This looks like a team that will live and die on whether they can make 3s and not turn the ball over.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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11-19-23 10:52 AM - Post#359468
In response to andybech
I was just looking at the stat sheet and paying particular attention to the turnovers and shooting percentages. 21 turnovers (against 14 assists), 27.6% from three point range.
The turnovers were problematic, because many of the live ball turnovers could have been prevented. UMES had a tactic of blitzing defensive rebounders and stripping the ball. You would think that after one or two such plays the coaching staff would have made ball security after rebounds a point of emphasis, but that tactic was effective for the entire game. They also employed it on inbounds plays after made baskets, but it wasn't nearly as effective.
As for our three point percentage, Slajchert was 4 for 13. Brown was 4 for 6 and no one else made one. Perkins was 0 for 5. High variance indeed.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-19-23 11:14 AM - Post#359469
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Stats from Ken POM
Penn has dropped to rank of 194 O 168 D 211. That puts them well behind last year on O and about the same on D
Turn over rate is 340th and FT % is 307th.
Slajchert is at 105, very good for a high-use player. Perkins is a 94.5, poor for a high-use player
Nick is at 76.5, terrible for a high-use player. 40% on turnovers and .385% at the line. He is rebounding well, but not much else.
Thrower is at 98.3 At least he is willing to shoot.
Smith, at 68% of minutes, has taken 12 shots, just over two a game.
Last night with Thrower out it looked like last year, two guards shooting and not much else. Penn lost because one of the two played poorly, just like in some close losses last year when Clark was hurting.
Looks like Sam Brown has moved into the fourth guard spot. Smith, Laz, and Walter come next.
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borschtbelt
Freshman
Posts: 60
Age: 74
Reg: 07-27-20
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11-19-23 11:22 AM - Post#359470
In response to UPIA1968
I went to the game and wouldn't panic. Perkins will be very good for us. Yesterday just showed he has to learn to let the game come to him and not force. Laz did some outstanding things yesterday, all from effort. Brown will obviously not shoot that well game to game--but what he does do is play in complete control and understands the flow of the game. He is someone who will make everyone else better. So there are positives, and we will improve.Also, Smith does what he is supposed to as the last option--play D and make few mistakes. Last Holland is over-matched physically at the 4. He got shoved around yesterday. Laz did not. Anyway, good to see Mo and Steve. Good seafood on the way there and back.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-19-23 11:39 AM - Post#359471
In response to UPIA1968
KP has Penn 5th in the Ivies, two games back of Harvard and Cornell in fourth.
Rankins on the first four:
Princeton 68
Yale 71
Cornell 126
Harvard 139
There are no signs here of a drop in Ivy competency, just a drop in Penn competency.
Best of Donahue era = 125 Average 151
Yale 58 - 115 Class of the league
Princeton 58 - 128 Hot recently
Harvard 143 - 110 Past its prime
Cornell 224 - 138 Taking Penn's place recently
The program has fallen well short of excellence. The result so far indicate a program searching for a new run. Making the tournament is a stretch.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32849
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-19-23 01:52 PM - Post#359473
In response to borschtbelt
Your comment on Laz being an effort guy rang a bell with me. Donahue seems to prefer the effort guy rather than talent. He went far too long giving minutes to Moshkovitz even though it was clear he really couldn't do anything but provide effort. Laz is a senior--if he really brought skills to the table, we would have seen them long ago. He unquestionably plays hard---but cannot dependably hit an open shot and isn't going to win many matchups. This is a rebuilding year---have to go with the young guys and see what they can do.
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borschtbelt
Freshman
Posts: 60
Age: 74
Reg: 07-27-20
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11-19-23 02:05 PM - Post#359474
In response to palestra38
We are in search of a 4.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-19-23 06:13 PM - Post#359480
In response to borschtbelt
How many really good 4's have we had in the last 30 years? Archibong and Rothschild come to mind. Maybe Eggleston. Most others that had talent we played at the 5 instead out of necessity (Brodeur, Zoller, etc.).
We've had an endless march of PF's who seemed promising but didn't become a force for one reason or another. Henry Brooks, Mike Howlett, Andreas Schreiber, Justin Reilly, Eddie Scott, Michael Wang...
This year is more of the same. Flashes of good play, but we don't have a consistent edge at the position. That is why I would be happy to simply have a very strong rebounder at the position. I like the effort of Laz, Walter, and Holland, so this isn't meant to personally criticize any of our PF's - past or present.
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borschtbelt
Freshman
Posts: 60
Age: 74
Reg: 07-27-20
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11-19-23 07:18 PM - Post#359485
In response to Penndemonium
I agree. No true 4. No criticism of the kids. I like the effort we are getting. But we are undersized there and the coaches have to love the effort.
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QHoops
Senior
Posts: 369
Reg: 12-16-04
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11-19-23 09:47 PM - Post#359492
In response to Penndemonium
Let's not forget our friend Steve Danley.
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