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Username Post: Rankings, Ratings and Polls        (Topic#27622)
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
01-10-24 01:32 PM - Post#361539    
    In response to Tiger81

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/insid...

Jay Bilas currently has Princeton as his 40th best team and Xaivian Lee in his Mid-Major All-America Team:

  • Quote:
The Bilastrator's Early Season Mid-Major All-America Team

• Isaiah Stevens, Colorado State

• Xaivian Lee, Princeton

• Tyon Grant-Foster, Grand Canyon

• Xavier Johnson, Southern Illinois

• Johnell Davis, Florida Atlantic



 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
01-12-24 12:12 AM - Post#361586    
    In response to gokinsmen

More love from ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story...

  • Quote:
Which team will surprise us all by March?

Gasaway: If it's possible for a team to surprise us two years in a row, Princeton is about to do so. The Tigers will greet Selection Sunday with zero Quad 1 wins after having played a schedule that included only one major-conference opponent (Rutgers). No one will be talking about Mitch Henderson's group except to say that they "haven't played anybody." But Xaivian Lee and Caden Pierce can play.



https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story...

  • Quote:
Dickie V's elite 8 mid-majors to watch

Princeton Tigers, Ivy League

The Tigers are sitting solidly in the top 30 NET rankings with a 12-1 nonconference record (and 1-0 in Ivy League play) and three Quad 2 wins. The Tigers, who made a Sweet 16 run last year, are looking to make back-to-back NCAA tournament appearances for the first time since doing three straight from 1996 to 1998. Princeton's 9-0 start this season is also its best in more than 100 years.



 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2816

Reg: 11-23-04
01-12-24 11:36 AM - Post#361600    
    In response to gokinsmen

All talk for now. First we have to win the stupid Tournament in N.Y. where anything can happen since there is no chance that the NCAA will allow 2 Ivies to cash in. Then, the Ivy will receive the usual low seed, minimizing the prospect of advance beyond Round One.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
01-12-24 12:38 PM - Post#361604    
    In response to Tiger69

How 'bout this love from ESPN's Bracketology (along with a #11 seed)?

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/ page/bra...

  • Quote:
The Princeton Tigers are rolling along, sporting a 13-1 overall record and a sub-30 NET. They won their Ivy League opener by 31 points over Harvard and will be the betting favorite in all 13 of their remaining regular-season games. They don't and won't have a Q1 win, but they have four in Q2 as well as six true road victories. Their only loss (at Saint Joseph's) sits in Q1 currently. Conceivably, the Tigers could be 27-1 or thereabouts heading into the Ivy League championship game on Selection Sunday. What would the committee do if Princeton drops that last game? Could the Ivy League really be a two-bid league? The answer from this seat is clearly "yes." And the uniqueness of it all is worth watching and even rooting for.



 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2816

Reg: 11-23-04
01-12-24 01:38 PM - Post#361607    
    In response to gokinsmen

I’ll believe it when I see it. Also, it’s a long shot that anyone’s record goes unblemished in the 14 game regular season.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1888

Reg: 11-21-04
01-12-24 07:51 PM - Post#361627    
    In response to Tiger69

Tiger69, I think you may be underestimating the power of conventional wisdom and psychic momentum being on our side this year. It took several years of knocking off big name schools and near misses in the tournament for the '91 team to gain a #8 seed in the tournament. The spectacular '98 team certainly benefited from the '96 team's defeat of UCLA and the painfully near miss of the '97 team. I don't think the '98 team gets a #5 seed without the success of the previous two years. This year's Tigers will benefit from last year's Sweet Sixteen team because this is how this works.

By the way, after working late last night I flipped on the tube and watched a pretty mediocre looking, turnover-prone Santa Clara team (recently defeated by Yale) take down #23 Gonzaga. I'd be stunned if Gonzaga doesn't get a ticket to the dance if they don't win their conference tournament this year because of the name they've built for themselves over the years.

Let's soak up all of the accolades pouring in for this year's Tigers and hope they keep rolling!


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2816

Reg: 11-23-04
01-12-24 11:29 PM - Post#361628    
    In response to TigerFan

I hope that you are correct. I’m a bit cynical in my old age. The world hasn’t turned out as I hoped for 50+ years ago.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
01-13-24 01:17 PM - Post#361630    
    In response to TigerFan

No argument about the potential usefulness of prior NCAA success, but I think Gonzaga and Princeton are apples and oranges when it comes to extra invites.

KenPom has Gonzaga #27, Tigers #52. Gonzaga has wins over several P5 conference teams, even if they are mediocre (with possibility of one more - Kentucky - though unlikely), Tigers have one and won't get any more in regular season. Gonzaga has multiple years of high-level NCAA tournament wins since 1998, including many Elite 8 and Sweet 16 performances, Princeton has one.

Gonzaga is now being dismissed as an at-large team by at least some bracket makers - see https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/ne ws/... and https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-baske tba...

If Tigers lose any games going forward, it will be to a team ranked no higher currently, and almost certainly considerably lower, than Gonzaga just lost to (Yale 108, Santa Clara 109, with the next highest ivy Penn at 165) unless Gonzaga loses to one of the poor WCC teams. So, IMO Tigers probably will be more adversely affected ratings-wise by a loss than Gonzaga.

I know some people, such as at espn, have been talking them up and perhaps that sentiment will prevail, but until it happens I am very dubious.

In the meantime, let's win the games and, as you say, enjoy the team.

 
SecS3 
Junior
Posts: 246

Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
01-13-24 02:25 PM - Post#361631    
    In response to sparman

Granted, it's not quite the same, but we'll find out how much previous success in the tournament influences the NCAA this year for the women's team. Will they get an at large bid if they don't win the ILT and how much will it affect their seed in either scenario?

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
02-06-24 12:17 PM - Post#362840    
    In response to SecS3

Somehow made ESPN's inaugural 2024 Bubble Watch:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/insid...

  • Quote:
Princeton Tigers
Up until late January, Princeton was looking absolutely ideal on paper, and talk of a potential two-bid Ivy was beginning to gain traction. Then the Tigers dropped road games by 15 at Cornell and by six at Yale, and now the picture has been altered dramatically. Mitch Henderson's team dropped more than 20 spots in the NET rankings in the space of a few days. Perhaps there's still a glimmer of at-large hope for a 16-3 team that might crack the top-50 in this or that metric, but the more promising path to the field of 68 for the Tigers is likely to be winning the Ivy's automatic bid.



Zero chance of course, but even token consideration after 2 losses tells me a 2-bid Ivy has become a real possibility. Next season will be very interesting...

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1888

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: ankings, Ratings and Polls
02-06-24 07:18 PM - Post#362849    
    In response to gokinsmen

I love this. Sports writers are a bunch of lemmings so ink like this will keep the buzz alive. Sweet sixteen. Great start. X.Lee. What’s not to love? Now, we just have to get another winning streak going. Go Tigers!

 
whitakk 
Masters Student
Posts: 523

Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
02-06-24 10:27 PM - Post#362856    
    In response to TigerFan

If they win out until the final they'll have a really strong case on the resume metrics - even today they're still ahead of Kentucky in WAB and SOR.

They still wouldn't get in because of the "count up Quad 1-2 record" crap, and the team quality metrics have fallen enough that I'm not sure even I'd get too worked up over it (also the bubble seems stronger than usual because the top teams keep losing).

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
02-06-24 11:37 PM - Post#362858    
    In response to whitakk

I remember hearing on the Yale or Cornell broadcast that the NCAA Committee was sent a copy of the email in which two power conference teams pulled out of a tournament when Princeton joined - leading to the entire event being canceled.

That is to say, I don't think a lack of Quad 1 wins is fatal because the committee is aware that "Princeton + Sweet 16" makes marquee opponents run for the hills. Also, having no Quad 3 or Quad 4 losses is a major plus - even elite teams have 1 or 2 bad losses.

What is fatal, however, is losing too many Quad 2 road games. Those are our version of "marquee" opportunities. Can't lose @St. Joe's AND @Cornell AND @Yale. Oh well. I just think it's worth noting that the mainstream tide is finally turning - look out in 2025.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4911

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-24 08:33 PM - Post#362870    
    In response to gokinsmen

I have expressed my extreme skepticism about a two-bid Ivy under any circumstances, but the buzz is good for the league. It helps to have one player that the commentators can fixate on as the star of the team, so Lee getting some publicity is a plus for this sort of chit-chat.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
02-07-24 08:49 PM - Post#362872    
    In response to SRP

Speaking of which, Bart Torvik is a stathead that's been getting some traction (like Ken Pomeroy in his early days) and his player rankings have Xaivian Lee as the 16th most productive player in D-I. And he's the only underclassman in the Top 35.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&y...

Not surprisingly, Caden Pierce ranks 41st. This is the second or third advanced metric I've seen that has Lee as an elite-level player and Pierce as near-elite. The fact that they're only sophomores and playing in the Ivy League is amazing.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4911

Reg: 02-04-06
02-10-24 02:07 AM - Post#362934    
    In response to gokinsmen

Gonna be hard to top TJ Bray’s senior season, but that’s great.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
02-11-24 02:00 PM - Post#363118    
    In response to SRP

ESPN Bubble Watch update:

  • Quote:
Princeton Tigers
While the Ivy's top-to-bottom strength is similar to what we've seen before in its best showings (including 2022-23), this could mark the first season the league produces three top-100 KenPom teams. Princeton is the strongest of the three, according to KenPom, though Mitch Henderson's 17-3 team is in third place in the league standings, behind Yale and Cornell. Nevertheless, the Tigers are hanging around Bubble Watch because if they do string together enough wins for this question to be raised, their team sheet numbers won't doom their chances. Those numbers are already strong.



 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: ankings, Ratings and Polls
02-11-24 02:37 PM - Post#363120    
    In response to gokinsmen

Of course the key qualifier for the question even to be raised is stringing together enough wins. Based on team's performance the past several games, I would not say it is likely the question will be raised.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3667

Reg: 02-06-10
Rankings, Ratings and Polls
02-18-24 01:09 AM - Post#363428    
    In response to sparman

Latest Bubble Watch update. Again, ZERO chance at an at-large but it's still worth reading:

  • Quote:
PRINCETON TIGERS
The safest path to the field of 68 for any member of a league that's 0-for-forever on at-large bids is to qualify automatically. At 19-3, Princeton's chances of winning the Ivy's automatic bid are significantly greater than the probability of earning an at-large invite. Still, in an effort to reach for that second lifeline in case it becomes necessary, the Tigers might wish to climb even a little higher in the NET rankings and surface in the 40s. (Winning by 11 at home against Yale was a start.) That, plus the committee's memory of Princeton's 2023 Sweet 16 run and, ideally, a collapse among some bubble rivals, could at least give the Tigers a shot.



Last year's Sweet 16 run is clearly affecting perception of this year's team. Need to win the ILT, but if we do, I honestly think a 10-seed is possible.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4911

Reg: 02-04-06
02-18-24 04:31 AM - Post#363431    
    In response to gokinsmen

Back up to 65 on KenPom from 72 yesterday.

 
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