LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 431
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-28-24 11:15 AM - Post#364079
Things may change over the last
three games, but thought it was
getting the conversation started.
First Team
Wolf
Knowling
Pierce
Lee
Manon
Second Team
Lilly
Williams
DeLaRubio
Allocco
Mbeng
Honorable Mention
Okpara
Slajchert
Neskovic
ROY- Mack
COY- Earl
POY- too close to call still (Wolf, Lee and Pierce could all win)
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: 23/24 Men's Awards
02-28-24 12:07 PM - Post#364084
In response to LocalTiger
PoY - depends who wins the league; Lee if Princeton or Cornell wins, Wolf if Yale wins
CoY - Brian Earl
DPoY - Bez Mbeng
RoY - Malik Mack
First Team:
Xaivian Lee
Danny Wolf
Matt Knowling
Caden Pierce
Chris Manon
Second Team:
Kino Lilly
Geronimo Rubio de la Rosa
Nazir Williams
Malik Mack
Nana Owusu-Anane/Chisom Okpara (depends on who finishes fourth)
HM:
Bez Mbeng
John Poulakidas
Dusan Neskovic
Edited by iogyhufi on 02-28-24 12:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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02-28-24 05:16 PM - Post#364104
In response to iogyhufi
No bones to pick here. Earl for COY is a choice that everyone should love!
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: 23/24 Men's Awards
02-28-24 06:55 PM - Post#364112
In response to iogyhufi
When was the last time not a single Penn player made an all-Ivy team?
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-28-24 08:14 PM - Post#364114
In response to CM
Possibly Harvard as well, especially if lose to Brown on Friday.
That’s possible for 1st and 2nd teams.
Mack is a lock for ROY.
Ajogbor should be part of all defensive team - if there is one. He continues a growing history of Crimson centers who can defend and rim protect, but can’t shoot from further than 3 feet (Zena, Lewis, Kenyatta Smith, Wojcik (LOL))
By the way, Wojcik going 3-3 vs Penn in the first half was really helpful, and statistically remarkable. He shot 12.5% last year, but has improved.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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02-28-24 11:07 PM - Post#364129
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
POY: Lee
ROY: Mack
DPOY: lean Mbeng but not strongly - Manon has a case, Ajogbor would be my pick if he played enough
COY: Earl
Lee, Wolf, Manon, Pierce should be unanimous first-team.
Nana, Lilly, Mack, Mbeng are my candidates for the last spot - I'd pick Nana today but I honestly haven't watched enough Brown to say that confidently, on paper he's terrific.
Allocco and DeLaRosa round out the second team for me, edging Knowling and Williams. I might be wrong on leaving Knowling off entirely (didn't realize how crazy efficient he's been) but I definitely don't think he's first team.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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Re: 23/24 Men's Awards
02-28-24 11:11 PM - Post#364130
In response to CM
When was the last time not a single Penn player made an all-Ivy team?
2014-15 if you don't count Tony Hicks' honorable mention (and there were even 12 guys on the All-Ivy teams that year due to ties)
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-29-24 12:10 AM - Post#364135
In response to whitakk
I have a really hard time putting Allocco on any all-Ivy team. This says more about the quality of the field, to be honest - Allocco has had a very good season. But he's had four serious lemons in-conference (Harvard twice and the two losses), and he's done this all while being at best his team's third offensive option. His good conference games aren't good enough for me to put him above RdlR or Mack.
Matt Knowling has the highest in-conference offensive rating of any player in the League. He has the fifth-best in-conference assist rate. I just really can't imagine leaving him off.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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02-29-24 12:27 AM - Post#364136
In response to iogyhufi
knowling was a yo yo at beginning of the year due to health.
so far he has been the rock in ivy league play.
so if yale finishes well he is 1st team.
we arent the same team without him thats for sure. he beat cornell once and without him we would have been blown out in cornell 2.
and he wouldve helped so much in princeton II.
no knowling and wolf laid a bagel. not purely coincidence
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 431
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-29-24 08:50 AM - Post#364146
In response to james
I will be surprised if Allocco is not
recognized. He is the best leader
the League has seen in a while,
plays tough defense on the other
team's best scorer, and was twice POW.
The case for him is far stronger
than Pouikaidis, for example who
is no better than Yale's 4th option.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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02-29-24 11:24 AM - Post#364151
In response to LocalTiger
Will surprise no one that I support Local Tiger re:Allocco. He is the unquestioned leader on an excellent Tiger team, is a clutch player, terrific shooter and defends very well, usually against the other team's best. No one plays more minutes and, to use an old cliche, he is a coach on the floor.
For him not to be recognized would be terrible.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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23/24 Men's Awards
02-29-24 12:04 PM - Post#364155
In response to ToothlessTiger
Just to defend myself a little, I don't disagree that Allocco has been good. But there are only ten spots.
I agree with whitakk that Wolf/Lee/Pierce/Manon are absolute locks for first team. Lilly seems like a lock for something to me, and Owusu-Anane has put up tremendous numbers, so I have to think he gets something if Brown makes the ILT. That's six right there. We have four spots left.
De gustibus and all that, but I can't think Knowling gets left off - his numbers have been too good (and better than Allocco's). Mack has put up tremendous numbers even though Harvard's spacing is a tire fire and he never has a clean driving lane. Plus he's the top assist man in the conference.
Now we have two spots left, and I don't think it would be egregious to give one to Allocco. But does Princeton deserve a third spot more than Cornell deserves a second? Or more than Columbia deserves one at all? Mbeng is fifth on the all-KenPom team, what about him? There's a lot of talent in the league this year, and I dunno that all the deserving players will get recognized. (Maybe they could give one of Mbeng or Allocco DPoY and the other an all-Ivy slot, I dunno.)
Edited by iogyhufi on 02-29-24 12:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 431
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-29-24 12:25 PM - Post#364156
In response to iogyhufi
Mack has had a great year,
but the tradition seems to
be that the Freshman of the
Year (and he is a lock) does not
get more. That frees a slot.
I would not argue about Owuse-Anane
over Okpara. Again, maybe the remaining
games clarify the picture.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1889
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-03-24 08:49 PM - Post#364431
In response to LocalTiger
When Cornell was rolling and leading the league, I would have supported Brian Earl as coach of the year but my vote now is Mitch Henderson.
Princeton lost three starters from last year's Sweet Sixteen team and is tied for first with one game to play. Note that James Jones won this award last year with his Yale team tied for first with the Tigers. Earl won the award in 2022 for making big gains with his Cornell team--unless the Red win the league this year, why should he get the award again for another close finish?
Mitch hasn't won the award since 2017, despite his team being co-champs the last two years. And if its a close call, you gotta give it to him for making the Sweet Sixteen last year (I don't care if that was last year). If the Tigers defeat Penn next weekend (not at all a certainty), Mitch Henderson is your 2023-24 Ivy coach of the year.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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03-03-24 09:15 PM - Post#364433
In response to TigerFan
I think you've convinced me on this one, but I wouldn't have a problem with either winning. 22-6 and top-100-ish at a program like Cornell is mighty impressive.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-03-24 10:12 PM - Post#364435
In response to whitakk
Henderson probably will win it, assuming Princeton beats Penn. The coaches tend to award CoY to one of the coaches who wins the league - 2022 was an aberration, and to be fair, Brian Earl really did earn that one.
The unusual wrinkle here is that Yale was the favorite going into the season, but Princeton was the favorite going into the conference season. Probably will be Henderson anyway, but there you go.
For what it's worth, though I picked Earl, I think Coach Jones deserves a tremendous amount of credit for helping his team right the ship midseason. Yale's nonconference was a bit of a gong show at times this year, but according to KenPom, Yale has been the best team in the Ivy League on both offense and defense in conference play. If you'd told me that that'd be the case after the Fairfield game, it might've been a bit more optimism than I was ready for at the time.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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23/24 Men's Awards
03-04-24 12:01 AM - Post#364442
In response to iogyhufi
You can’t give it to a 6/7-loss team but after Brown’s five game run Mike Martin does enter your mind.
I continue to believe getting a Cornell into the top 100 is a meaner feat than getting Princeton there. And look at the trajectory. Mitch is tremendous but for me - this year- it’s Earl.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-04-24 12:04 AM - Post#364443
In response to iogyhufi
A competitive race for COY for sure. Earl gets style points for having a team where his coaching strategy matters a lot for their success. Jones indeed has whipped the horse adroitly down the stretch. And Henderson has his players paradoxically playing loose but with discipline and is getting consistent high-quality performances from all his rotation guys.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2275
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-04-24 10:28 AM - Post#364460
In response to SRP
Per TigerFan elsewhere on this board: Princeton is now #1 in nation in fewest turnovers per game, #2 in free throw shooting, #3 in fouls, and #7 in assist to turnover ratio.
I would consider these to be coaching related metrics. Mitch for COY!
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 380
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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03-04-24 03:27 PM - Post#364490
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
With 1 game left, here’s where I think we are for the Men’s award:
First team: The two best players in the league have been Pierce and Lee. Whichever one Henderson nominates should win the POY.
The 3rd and 4th best players are Wolf and Owusu-Anane, in sone order. Wolf will be unanimous first team, Nana O-A might be.
The last first teamer could be any of Nazir Williams, Chris Manon, Geronimo Rubio de la Rosa, Matt Allocco, Kimo Lilly. I think you’ve got to have a Cornell guy on the first team and so I’ll go with Williams. Would not surprise me at all to see ties expand the first team.
Second team = the 4 listed above who don’t make first team, plus one of Mack, Okpara, Knowling, Mbeng, Gray. I’ll guess Knowling.
Coach of the year? Flip a coin between the two guys who stood for a moment of silence for their teammate Stags Saturday night. I’ll root for a tie vote.
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