palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32822
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-19-15 10:00 AM - Post#179918
In response to 10Q
Boy does that hit the nail on the head. And it's the thing a lot of us are worried about. There's no question that Jerome brought in a very good class of freshmen this year. And next year is forecast to be even stronger. Meanwhile, the juniors are not showing significant improvement and we don't have a single good out of conference win since beating St. Joe's in January, 2012. We don't have many impressive conference wins since that year either--just Princeton last year. Let's say we go 8-6 in the conference this year....which is about all we can hope for. That would make us 12-16 for the year. Is that the news that makes you feel good about the direction of the team?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32822
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-19-15 10:02 AM - Post#179919
In response to Chip Bayers
Ochefu had 10 of his 21 points down that stretch, with 2 layups, a dunk and 4 FTs. I didn't see any doubles, but if you tell me there were, they weren't timely enough to put pressure on his dribble at all.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23383
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-19-15 10:05 AM - Post#179920
In response to palestra38
I want Jerome to succeed. I want him to grow into the job. I want him to develop into the coach we all hoped he would be. I want him to be Penn's coach until he is 75 years old.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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01-19-15 10:32 AM - Post#179925
In response to 10Q
Penn just covered the huge spread against Villanova by 3 points. Harvard just landed a consensus Top 100, and by some measures Top 50, recruit.
Penn is totally non-competitive in the Ivy and outside of it. Any confidence in the coach seems to me completely counterproductive and misplaced.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-19-15 11:02 AM - Post#179926
In response to palestra38
Ochefu had 10 of his 21 points down that stretch, with 2 layups, a dunk and 4 FTs. I didn't see any doubles, but if you tell me there were, they weren't timely enough to put pressure on his dribble at all.
Why change the subject? I gave you the specific plays in sequence in the stretch when the lead went from 1 point to 10 points. That was when the game was decided. None of his scores in that stretch came on isolation plays, and in fact two of the Villanova baskets came on kick outs from Ochefu when Penn brought help defense to do exactly what you insisted they never did. Penn was playing a ton of zone throughout to clog the middle, sometimes helping on Ochefu, sometimes not - the point was to not to play it the same everytime.
What you're remembering was what happened over the final 3:50 AFTER Villanova had pushed the lead to a 9-10 points margin. There were then three distinct Ochefu isolation plays on which he scored 4 FTs and a layup. But since Penn wasn't scoring at the other end those only really mattered for determining the final margin. The game had already been decided.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-19-15 12:39 PM - Post#179927
In response to 10Q
I want Jerome to succeed. I want him to grow into the job. I want him to develop into the coach we all hoped he would be. I want him to be Penn's coach until he is 75 years old.
Totally share your feelings. But I've lost hope that this is going to happen. Haven't you?
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23383
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-19-15 12:55 PM - Post#179928
In response to Silver Maple
Pretty much, but not completely. Still hoping.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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Penn v 'Nova
01-19-15 03:09 PM - Post#179940
In response to Charlie Fog
Good effort and nice game plan Coach. Now let's see if they can continue to improve on Wednesday and going forward. im feeling good about the direction this program is headed.
This may be the scariest thing I've read on these boards in quite some time. This kind of thinking could be all that Grace needs to see to keep the nightmare going.
Not that they are the same type of players and I am happy with some of the things I've seen from the Frosh, but let's not forget that we felt good last season at different points with players like Harrell and Bagtas and even Dylan Jones too. It is up to the coach to make it all work and it is plainly obvious that will never be the case, despite how badly we all wanted it to work out.
I'm happy we kept it competitive too, but we did still lose by 14, only covering the spread by 5.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-19-15 03:31 PM - Post#179942
In response to Quakers03
As I've said before, we keep seeing signs of possible progress. This has been going on for years now. But we're not seeing the team winning games. Until we see that, all the encouraging signs in the world won't really mean anything.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-19-15 04:08 PM - Post#179943
In response to Chip Bayers
I'm no expert, but it looked to me like we sometimes switched from zone to man within a possession -- something we did with the early Dunphy teams but really haven't done much since. What's been encouraging to me in the last three games is that we've defended more the way we used to defend when Allen was playing. Physical with the cutters against Princeton, mixing things up against a high major. We're getting a lot of fouls called on us as a result, but we're actually starting to play the way Allen has said he wants to play.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32822
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 09:27 AM - Post#179960
In response to SomeGuy
After Villanova was blown out last night, do you still think a 15 point loss in a game that was 1 point with less than 10 to go is a promising event?
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23383
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 10:06 AM - Post#179963
In response to palestra38
It was a very good loss, something to relish (note sarcasm).
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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01-20-15 10:40 AM - Post#179965
In response to 10Q
Yeah Villanova is awful.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 10:40 AM - Post#179966
In response to 10Q
All facts must be forced into the narrative. The most ridiculous post hoc ergo propter hoc arguments must be applied. We are at war with Oceania.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32822
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 10:58 AM - Post#179967
In response to Chip Bayers
No, it's Eastasia.
The only narrative that matters is that we stink, there is little prospect of a championship in the next 3 years, and maybe if you had gone to every home game (well, except 2) since 1992, you might feel as I do.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-20-15 11:33 AM - Post#179971
In response to palestra38
Yes. JTIII thanked Jerome for softening them up in the postgame press conference and said that he had simply used the Penn game plan.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32822
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 11:39 AM - Post#179972
In response to SomeGuy
OK, you guys have convinced me. We only should have a sunny outlook expressed on this board, and almost reflexive support of the Coach and program. I'll post again here when I get beyond half empty in my view of things. Meanwhile, the time is yours.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23383
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-15 01:16 PM - Post#179979
In response to palestra38
Ya'll come back now, ya hear.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-20-15 02:40 PM - Post#179982
In response to palestra38
I'm not sure how I've become the spokesperson for the positive viewpoint. I wouldn't have hired the current coach, and I've consistently argued that the talent level is actually lower than you and a lot of others posit.
I just saw some positives out there on Saturday, and while we're still losing, I'm seeing more players and play that could lead to winning basketball. I want to win, however we do it, and I want it to start immediately (I'm not concerned with whether it is with this coach or with another one, or to the extent I am, I'm not interested in throwing away the season in order to be sure the coach doesn't come back).
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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01-20-15 02:52 PM - Post#179983
In response to SomeGuy
See you tomorrow night, which should be a good test and hopefully continued positive momentum. Also looking forward to seeing Silpe in a Penn uniform soon.
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