jmverlin
Junior
Posts: 218
Age: 35
Reg: 07-18-12
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04-11-23 12:18 PM - Post#355707
Hey all --
Spoke with Steve Donahue a couple weeks ago about the 2022-23 season and the offseason/season to come.
Lots in here:
https://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/...
Thanks for reading, as always!
- Josh
PS CoBL is in need of some pretty significant fundrasing, and it's an area I'm pretty terrible at. If anybody has a business that would like to advertise with us, or would like to be one of our Gold Level donors ($1200/annually), please let me know!
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-11-23 04:53 PM - Post#355715
In response to jmverlin
Notable edit:
(Ed. Note: Gus Larson entered the transfer portal on April 11, 2023)
Seems to be confirmed by Verbal Commits. Interesting considering there is specific mention of how undergraduate Ivy kids have not been transferring in the article.
Considering the need for more depth in the post next year, wonder what is going on there. I know some folks were high on his potential here (I didn't personally see enough to have an opinion).
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-11-23 05:38 PM - Post#355718
In response to Mike Porter
Josh Verlin has updated the transcript of his fine Q and A session to include a Jordan Dingle NBA question and Steve's reply.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-11-23 05:46 PM - Post#355719
In response to Mike Porter
Yes, certainly seems like there is/was an opportunity for Larson here. And a hole to fill if he transfers, just in terms of numbers in the frontcourt.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2141
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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04-11-23 07:01 PM - Post#355720
In response to SomeGuy
Yes, certainly seems like there is/was an opportunity for Larson here. And a hole to fill if he transfers, just in terms of numbers in the frontcourt.
I saw Larson in the Iona game this past season, and the thing that stuck with me was that he didn't seem to have the physical strength to be a post player. He struggled to avoid being pushed off his spot. As the season progressed, he wasn't able to break into the rotation. I don't see how he helps another team unless he can add enough bulk to make it harder for opponents to push him around.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-11-23 09:52 PM - Post#355723
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Yeah I had a similar impression in the small amount of time I saw him play. He seemed to me to be one of those big kids who played smaller than his size (not in a good way). Don't think a big loss per se, but interior depth is a big issue (no pun intended).
Reading it again. Coach Donahue's commentary on Holland was a bit odd. Sort of complimentary, sort of not. I think Holland will need to play a big role next year if we are to have any chance at being as good as we hope.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2141
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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04-12-23 12:02 AM - Post#355725
In response to Mike Porter
I think Holland has a lot of potential as well. If he can figure out the defensive end, he could take the role Monroe had, but with expanded offense. It may take a while for him to settle into the playmaking aspect.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-12-23 12:15 PM - Post#355726
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Eddie Holland can be a critical part of our success next year without playing the way Lucas Monroe did. His shooting dwarfs what Lucas brought to the court, and he can share the 3 position with George Smith, providing that Eddie is also effective with driving to the hoop and rebounding aggressively. I am looking forward to watching him grow into that role. As for Gus Larson, I, too, was at the Iona game. From my perspective, Larson ran and jumped well, and, were he slotted at the 4 along with Max Martz, he could play valuable minutes and be a big help, providing he could hit a jumper from the corner and drive to the hoop on occasion. Whether he, if he doesn't transfer, or our 6'8" incoming freshman whose video shows he can shoot and in an interview said he was recruited eventually to fill a role that Brodeur had, take hold of important minutes at the 4 position, it would allow us to play sometimes with two bigs in the manner that Princeton did successfully this year.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8288
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-12-23 12:38 PM - Post#355727
In response to pennsive
Larson maybe 7'+, but definitely played smaller from what little I saw of him. Let's just say MLL would win the majority of tip-offs and rebounds from him. OTOH, he seemed pretty skilled for someone that big and I was convinced at the time he would fill out some, much the way Martz (among others) did over 4 years. I hope he stays, but they appear to have other options at the 4/5.
Like everyone else, I hope and expect Holland develops in away that gets him some serious PT, but SD clearly sees him as a work in progress.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32859
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-12-23 01:34 PM - Post#355728
In response to Streamers
I think both of you are leaving out Chris Ubochi, who comes out of Mater Dei in Santa Ana, a major high school power, was a major defensive player there and in AAU ball and seems to me to be just what we need in the middle---as I understand it, he didn't play last year because of academic issues in high school, not because he was not playing well.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8288
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-12-23 02:13 PM - Post#355729
In response to palestra38
I had not forgotten about him. He was one of the "other options" I was referring to.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1901
Reg: 11-29-04
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04-12-23 05:06 PM - Post#355730
In response to Streamers
Larson was always going to take time to develop. It didn't seem possible that he would go from a bench player in high school to impact player in college immediately, especially with his build. I don't think there are too many players at Penn who have done that in the past. Maybe Geoff Owens? DNH comes to mind, though he played more than Larson in his early years. Some of these guys improved an awful lot, though.
Anyone have any perspectives on what it is that Eddie Holland needs to work on? What training plan would you give him? I didn't really see enough of him to know. He always looked really promising to me, but I often get disappointed by the playing time that some of our more athletic forwards get.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8288
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-12-23 06:14 PM - Post#355732
In response to Penndemonium
Larson was always going to take time to develop. It didn't seem possible that he would go from a bench player in high school to impact player in college immediately, especially with his build. I don't think there are too many players at Penn who have done that in the past. Maybe Geoff Owens? DNH comes to mind, though he played more than Larson in his early years. Some of these guys improved an awful lot, though.
Anyone have any perspectives on what it is that Eddie Holland needs to work on? What training plan would you give him? I didn't really see enough of him to know. He always looked really promising to me, but I often get disappointed by the playing time that some of our more athletic forwards get.
No question Larson was profiled as a project coming in and that is consistent with what (little) we have seen of him, including some of the improvements.
As for Holland, there’s been lots of speculation as to his development priorities here. No sense in my adding to it even if I thought I had any insights which I don’t. Hard to miss the potential there though.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Reg: 10-11-18
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04-13-23 09:48 AM - Post#355737
In response to palestra38
I saw Ubochi play in the Red/Blue game last fall and to call him raw would be a major understatement. With a good development program he could for sure make an impact since his physical gifts are self-evident. But he looked a good distance from being a rotation player at that level.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32859
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-13-23 09:55 AM - Post#355738
In response to CM
I hear you, but I also know that the Red and Blue scrimmage is far from an adequate game(s) to come to much of a conclusion about anything. Again, he came from a very high level of high school competition and was much awarded for his defense. Sound to me like MLL in that regard....so I think we'll see him in a similar role next year, although what the effect of a year away from competition will do is unknown.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 430
Reg: 10-11-18
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04-13-23 10:01 AM - Post#355739
In response to palestra38
I hear you in drawing conclusions from Red/Blue, but since we didn't see him play other than that it seems like all we have to go on. He's much more physical than MLL but did not seem to have the refined shot blocking nor the sense of his body in space (aka, foul magnet).
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-13-23 01:48 PM - Post#355746
In response to CM
On the plus side, I would have described Princeton’s Kellman the same way a couple of years ago, and he turned into a pretty good player on both ends.
That said, my way too early prediction is that Spinoso and Gerhart are our centers next year (unless we get a transfer, which seems like a reasonable possibility). We’ll probably occasionally play small with Martz and Laz (or Holland) together under certain circumstances. But I would strongly prefer not to have to play small — as you saw with Brown this past year, you can get the jump on teams with the small lineup as a change of pace, but once teams see it and can prepare for it, it gets tough to pull off. We absolutely need somebody to fill the MLL role, and then we need somebody to fill the Mosh role of being there if Spinoso or the other big get hurt. So we’ll need Gerhart and Ubochi ready to contribute.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-13-23 03:24 PM - Post#355749
In response to palestra38
I hear you, but I also know that the Red and Blue scrimmage is far from an adequate game(s) to come to much of a conclusion about anything. Again, he came from a very high level of high school competition and was much awarded for his defense. Sound to me like MLL in that regard....so I think we'll see him in a similar role next year, although what the effect of a year away from competition will do is unknown.
I hope he develops for sure, but just to be clear you are overestimating his pedigree before Penn.
He was extremely raw in HS and didn't get to Mater Dei until he was a junior. Subsequently he did a prep year at a school you've never heard of (me neither which is why I can't remember the name) for further development. It is understandable since he only really started playing basketball when he got to the US 5 years ago. We brought him in as a recruit way late and he had no real other offers reported publicly.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-13-23 03:29 PM - Post#355750
In response to SomeGuy
On the plus side, I would have described Princeton’s Kellman the same way a couple of years ago, and he turned into a pretty good player on both ends.
That said, my way too early prediction is that Spinoso and Gerhart are our centers next year (unless we get a transfer, which seems like a reasonable possibility). We’ll probably occasionally play small with Martz and Laz (or Holland) together under certain circumstances. But I would strongly prefer not to have to play small — as you saw with Brown this past year, you can get the jump on teams with the small lineup as a change of pace, but once teams see it and can prepare for it, it gets tough to pull off. We absolutely need somebody to fill the MLL role, and then we need somebody to fill the Mosh role of being there if Spinoso or the other big get hurt. So we’ll need Gerhart and Ubochi ready to contribute.
Again, hope Ubochi really evolves into a great player for us, and I like the idea of taking a flier on a kid like this. That said, Kellman had offers to places like Drexel, Bucknell, Colgate, etc. when he picked Princeton and he didn't really break out until he was a senior. Just to set expectation levels, I tend to doubt much help will come here for next year. Maybe as a junior/senior if development comes. Would love to be wrong of course. Really hoping for a post player transfer to give us a better chance...
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1901
Reg: 11-29-04
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04-14-23 11:41 AM - Post#355756
In response to Mike Porter
It's just really hard for me to believe this guy can't help us more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA-9yofVamQ
I don't want to nitpick Donahue when he sees things we don't, but I do have one observation. Coaches often have issues with players with regards to decision-making, hustle, focus, and/or mistakes. Undoubtedly some players have different playing maturity and it does make a difference. What team coaches sometime miss is that some of those players are curable with a mix of individualized training on decision paths and learning the right reactions, sports pschology, and such. If you saw what Steph Curry did in his training to develop on all of these things - he has literally mapped out the response to each situation based on how far his defenders are, where they are in position to him, and what direction they are facing, whether there is a double team, and more.
I'm not saying any of these are the particular concern for Ed Holland - I'm only extrapolating from the article - I have no idea. to the coaching staff, please take a look whether its preparation, processing speed, eyesight, recognition, decision trees, anxiety, or anything else that will help this young man reach his potential. He has too much ability to waste on our bench.
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